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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:12 | kados | paul++ for seeing 'insecure == 'NO'' |
| 12:13 | paul: I think that was the cause of many problems for me :-) | |
| 12:13 | and I couldn't tell because in sysprefs it displays as 'no' :-) | |
| 12:13 | (even though it's 'true' for perl) :-) | |
| 12:18 | paul | wow, chris is now a "famous kiwi"... |
| 12:18 | http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/?p=672 | |
| 12:24 | kados | w00t |
| 12:24 | congrats chris! | |
| 12:25 | and Koha too, for being a Finalist | |
| 12:25 | :) | |
| 12:29 | paul | kados : there are 12 blo/cri bugs, at least 5 of them waiting for an answer from you. |
| 12:29 | could you pls take care of them? | |
| 12:37 | kados | paul: yes, it's on my list for today |
| 12:38 | paul | kados: just to let you know what it means to have a company in France. I just recieved a paper from my gov taxes service. There is a list of "dates to respect" (to declare or pay taxes). The list contains... 29 dates !!! we are not concerned by all of them, but the 1st game is to find which ones are for us (as it's not specified). |
| 12:39 | hdl | Congrats to all |
| 12:46 | kados I sent a first commit for ISBN-13 management. But it was buggy. | |
| 12:46 | I just sent a new patch which works now | |
| 14:14 | paul | kados : about amazon images. Do you know that the terms of use changed recently and are now limited to business partners ? |
| 14:14 | So it seems that this feature can't be used by our libraries. | |
| 14:15 | It has been reported to me by jerome pouchol, so feel free to comment/complete this information. | |
| 14:17 | atz | that is bad news! |
| 14:17 | liz_ | aw bummer |
| 14:17 | paul | (I would be pleased if someone checked & confirm this information) |
| 14:17 | atz | do you have a link or a communication from them about it? |
| 14:18 | paul | nope, just some mails in french from SAN-OP and another guy that uses amazon images in it's opac (internally developped) |
| 14:18 | atz | we'll have to check that out... I don't imagine it is very easy to get ahold of anybody there via phone :[ |
| 14:20 | liz_ | well maybe if they hear from enough libraries they would consider a "library partner" designation |
| 14:20 | paul | liz_ ++ |
| 14:21 | atz | if you are going to pay for content though, you might choose other sources |
| 14:21 | paul | (even if I feel it will be hard, because amazon business don't grow through libraries. someones may even think it is lowered by libraries...) |
| 14:21 | atz | like syndetics |
| 14:21 | twiggle | i'm not sure that's true really (libraries lowering amazon business) especially if the pic links back to their interface |
| 14:22 | i've been known to be a "try before you buy" library user | |
| 14:22 | paul | twiggle: i never said it's true. I just said some ppl may think it's true ;-) |
| 14:22 | twiggle | :) |
| 14:22 | i kno, i'm just being contrary ;) | |
| 14:23 | paul | (and if the guy who think it's true is the amazon president ...) |
| 14:23 | twiggle | (yea, that's a problem) |
| 14:23 | ^.^ | |
| 17:28 | kados | hdl: you around? |
| 17:29 | hdl | passing by. |
| 17:29 | yes | |
| 17:29 | kados | hdl: I'd like to ask you about your ISBN 13 note ... I don't understand it |
| 17:29 | hdl | I sent 3 patches. |
| 17:29 | The only one that will work is the third. | |
| 17:29 | kados | ahh, ok |
| 17:30 | gmcharlt did some work on ISBN 13 normalization I think | |
| 17:30 | gmcharlt: you around? | |
| 17:30 | gmcharlt | yep |
| 17:30 | kados | http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]351bc26e49bff7a9c |
| 17:30 | hdl: is that related to your patches? | |
| 17:30 | hdl | It is only a rewrite for DisplayISBN |
| 17:30 | kados | (I don't think I've seen them yet, chris gets up in a few hours) |
| 17:31 | gmcharlt | my patch probably isn't related to ISBN13 specifically, but should be compatibile with them |
| 17:31 | kados | gmcharlt: your intention with that patch was to normalize the isbn query ... does it assume a specific format that isbns are being saved in? |
| 17:31 | and in index vs sql vs marc ? | |
| 17:32 | gmcharlt | it makes no particular assumptions -- it just strips out parenthetical stuff in the 020$a that catalogers add |
| 17:32 | the parentheses currently cause a crash in the search code during hte dedupe check | |
| 17:32 | hdl | kados : my patch display ISBN13 with correct dashes. It is all it does. |
| 17:33 | gmcharlt | but also, the parenthetical information is mostly not needed for that sort of check |
| 17:33 | kados | so i think we need to be explicit about how we're storing ISBNs internally |
| 17:33 | hdl | (assuming they are not STORED in database with dashes. |
| 17:33 | ) | |
| 17:33 | kados | because i think hdl is assuming they don't have dashes in the db |
| 17:34 | gmcharlt: what's your experience with how that's generally handled? | |
| 17:34 | gmcharlt: is it good practice to normalize the ISBN down to a digit with no dashes for internal representation? | |
| 17:34 | gmcharlt: and then perhaps re-construct the dashes for display? | |
| 17:35 | gmcharlt | that sounds OK (keeping in mind that the last character of an ISBN can be an 'X') |
| 17:35 | kados | will catalogers be upset if we remove their parentheticals? |
| 17:35 | :-) | |
| 17:35 | gmcharlt | for search purposes, they won't care |
| 17:36 | but the 020$a should be left alone, and in the full bib display, taken from the 020$a directly if possible | |
| 17:36 | kados | that presents a challenge |
| 17:36 | since we're indexing 020$a directly in zebra | |
| 17:37 | gmcharlt | are there hooks to do some normalization of the bib data before it is presented to zebra? |
| 17:38 | also one thing regarding hyphens -- per MARC 21, the hyphens are not supposed to be stored in the 020$a | |
| 17:38 | so if the data is entered (or made to be entered that way) the ISBN will index as a single token | |
| 17:38 | the problem is that some "inexperienced" catalogers may enter the 020$a with the hyphens | |
| 17:38 | kados | ok, good to know |
| 17:38 | right | |
| 17:39 | ok, so we always remove hyphens | |
| 17:39 | rule #1 :-) | |
| 17:39 | we could add a hook to normalize bib data | |
| 17:39 | before indexing it in zebra | |
| 17:39 | that's actually a great idea | |
| 17:39 | there will be a bit of a performance hit | |
| 17:39 | gmcharlt | and even if we don't need it for ISBNs, we'll undoubted need it for other things |
| 17:40 | kados | but worth the normalization it'll give us |
| 17:40 | gmcharlt: definively | |
| 17:40 | hehe | |
| 17:40 | definitely | |
| 17:40 | gmcharlt | and we keep indexing as a background proces |
| 18:12 | thd | kados: hyphens in ISBNs usually break queries when reused with hyphens on other systems. Hyphens are nothing more than an aid to human readability and help in retyping but are very problematic when used in copy and paste queries. |
| 18:13 | kados | thd: I'm here |
| 18:13 | thd: yes, I understand that now | |
| 18:13 | thd: our default is to remove all hyphens from the data before the data is saved | |
| 18:14 | thd | kados: ther should perhaps be a user option to remove ISBN/ISSN/ISMN etc. hyphens even from display |
| 18:16 | ... merely because removing hyphens from copy and paste queries for other systems which cannot cope is a nuisance. | |
| 18:16 | s/ther/there/ | |
| 18:16 | kados | thd: good point |
| 18:17 | gmcharlt | hdl: you around? |
| 20:16 | owen | Yeah, I noticed some bug reports coming from Galen Charlton (gmcharlt, I assume) |
| 20:17 | Ooops, wrong tab. | |
| 20:17 | gmcharlt | gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, yes |
| 20:17 | kados | gmcharlt: I was just telling Owen how impressed I was :-) |
| 20:17 | in a pmsg | |
| 20:18 | and it seems to have spilled over into the main channel :-) | |
| 20:18 | owen | I was trying to remember your unpronounceable nick, gmcharlt ;) |
| 20:18 | gmcharlt | you can blame the CS department at my university for that :) |
| 20:19 | kados | gmcharlt: meet Owen, he's responsible for the new koha 3.0 templates, and the beautiful search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us |
| 20:19 | and not to mention the official koha template interface designer :-) | |
| 20:19 | gmcharlt | Nice to meet you-, owen |
| 20:20 | owen | Likewise. Where are you located, gmcharlt ? |
| 20:20 | gmcharlt | Chicago |
| 20:21 | kados | owen: galen will be in athens week of nov 5th, you can meet him in person |
| 20:21 | owen | I went to school in Chicago, '89-'92 |
| 20:22 | kados | hehe |
| 20:22 | gmcharlt | Been living here for a while, ever since doing the Chicago -> Anchorage -> Tallahassee -> Chicago round trip |
| 20:25 | owen | See y'all in 16 hours :) |
| 20:49 | hdl | gmcharlt: are you there ? |
| 20:49 | gmcharlt | yep |
| 20:49 | had a question -- hold on one moment | |
| 20:49 | hdl | you wanted to ask me a question ? |
| 20:50 | gmcharlt | yes -- first, let me introduce myself : my name is Galen Charlton, and I was recent hired by LibLime to work on Koha |
| 20:50 | I was thinking of writing a tool to compare a current Koha DB against kohastructure.sql or another DB | |
| 20:50 | among other things, to verify that any given upgradedatabase is working | |
| 20:50 | kados said that if anything like this existed already, you might have done it | |
| 00:44 | thd | gmcharlt: I have some code for part of your quest |
| 00:44 | gmcharlt | great |
| 00:45 | if email is convenient, mine is galen.charltonliblime.com |
|
| 00:46 | thd | gmcharlt: I also have some anecdotal evidence from my own experience that updatedatabase.pl may not have always worked. |
| 00:47 | gmcharlt | thd: by not including all of the schema changes, I assume? |
| 00:48 | thd | gmcharlt: I discovered about three weeks ago that updatedatabase.pl missed some columns for my installation which had been added between 2.2.5 and 2.2.6 |
| 00:49 | gmcharlt: the code itself still does not use those columns so it was easy to miss them | |
| 00:50 | ... without noticing any consequence | |
| 00:50 | gmcharlt | thd: right |
| 00:50 | thd | I can give you a URL to some code |
| 00:55 | I thought that I could give you a link but kados has not committed my latest patch | |
| 00:58 | gmcharlt | thd: I can wait, or can you e-mail me the patch? |
| 00:59 | thd | gmcharlt: only a small bit of that patch is relevant so I will extract it and email it to you. |
| 00:59 | gmcharlt | thd: thanks |
| 00:59 | ryan | thd: updatedatabase for 3.0 starts from scratch |
| 01:00 | thd | ryan: I presume that it does but that does not mean that 3.0.2 will not miss something |
| 01:01 | gmcharlt | thd: exactly why I want to write something to validate a DB against kohastructure.sql |
| 01:01 | ryan | yes, true... in fact , it does :) |
| 01:02 | there's some fk constraint that has to be manually removed. | |
| 01:03 | gmcharlt | where does the 3.0 updatedatabase do that check? |
| 01:33 | thd | gmcharlt: I just sent the email |
| 01:33 | gmcharlt: are you Foxnorth? | |
| 01:34 | gmcharlt | no, I'm not |
| 01:34 | got the email, thanks | |
| 03:06 | atz | anybody hear anything stateside about the Amazon images ? |
| 03:06 | Frenchies say Amazon is restricting the image service to "partners". | |
| 03:38 | kados | I haven't heard anything |
| 03:38 | but I'll check right now | |
| 03:41 | http://www.amazon.com/AWS-Lice[…]me=A36L942TSJ2AJA | |
| 03:42 | doesn't seem to have changed at all | |
| 03:42 | since the last time I checked a few months ago | |
| 06:30 | atz | that's good. maybe we're just hearing FUD. |
| 06:40 | I can't tell whether it was ever compliant with that page though. | |
| 06:40 | I'm sure we do more than 1 hit per second. | |
| 06:41 | chris | thats per ip isnt it? |
| 06:42 | atz | I'm not sure how the API works... but one hits page is going to have 10 images on it |
| 06:43 | chris | true |
| 06:43 | or even 20, depending on how many results per page its returning | |
| 06:43 | joshua has corresponded with amazon quite a bit | |
| 06:43 | theres even a blog post on it | |
| 06:44 | atz | and if it actually checks first w/ the service (it might, but I'm guessing it doesn't), then the servers would be connecting more often than 1/s under load |
| 06:45 | especially, say, in a hosted environment where many servers live on one box | |
| 06:46 | chris | its not the servers that do it |
| 06:46 | its the clients | |
| 06:46 | ie the content is fetched from amazon to the browser | |
| 06:46 | atz | i realize the images are just statically mapped |
| 06:46 | right | |
| 06:46 | chris | if you are doing it realtime |
| 06:47 | if you decide to cache them locally, you can do that too | |
| 06:47 | but you have to update them every 24 hours | |
| 06:47 | atz | other OPACs I've seen will query out first to verify added content exists |
| 06:48 | to know whether to include a "review" or "sample" section | |
| 06:48 | chris | right the amazon module as it stands just fetches |
| 06:48 | so you get empty review sections | |
| 06:48 | atz | right... that looks lame |
| 06:49 | chris | yep |
| 06:49 | but it gives you more chance of staying with the t&c | |
| 06:49 | atz | but I suppose you can try some js to hide it after the fact |
| 06:49 | chris | yeah hidden divs |
| 06:50 | atz | so how do we know how to reference the correct image? formulaic mapping based on ISBN? |
| 06:51 | chris | not sure kados wrote the module, but i think so |
| 06:53 | atz | actually, the C4::Amazon module does HTTP::Request or LWP connections to Amazon |
| 06:53 | chris | oh really? i didnt think it did |
| 06:53 | i stand corrected | |
| 06:54 | atz | yeah, this doesn't seem to be related to opac code, necessarily |
| 06:58 | lol, he has LWP::UserAgent identify itself as "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Win98; U)" | |
| 06:58 | chris | heh |
| 07:00 | atz | well, sleeptime for me |
| 07:00 | ttyl | |
| 07:00 | chris | sleep well |
| 07:04 | masonj | cya joe |
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