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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:32 | kados | morning #koha |
| 12:38 | paul | kados : about your cn proposal. |
| 12:38 | kados | hi |
| 12:38 | paul | (beep hdl) |
| 12:38 | hdl | yes |
| 12:38 | paul | hdl pointed that in france, libraries often have : |
| 12:39 | - NNN ABC (NNN=dewey ABC=aiuthor) for docs | |
| 12:39 | and letters for fictions | |
| 12:39 | in this scheme, how will we fill lcsort ? | |
| 12:39 | kados | yes, we have the same problem in US public libraries |
| 12:39 | paul | (it's the scheme most public libraries use) |
| 12:40 | kados | for sorting, it's impossible to avoid problems |
| 12:40 | the user must understand that fiction is ABC and non-fiction is 123 | |
| 12:40 | in fact, I had this problem for NPL | |
| 12:41 | http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search | |
| 12:41 | Check the Call Number 'Sort By ' option | |
| 12:41 | hdl | problem is really HARD for inventory/stocktaking. |
| 12:41 | kados | do you have any idea for a solution? |
| 12:46 | gys? | |
| 12:46 | guys? | |
| 12:47 | paul | not from me. hdl, an idea ? (i'm not sure it's solvable. I at least wanted to be sure you were aware of the problem |
| 12:47 | ) | |
| 12:48 | hdl | I have one. But it is not really satisfying. |
| 12:48 | a) having more than one subfield for Call Number | |
| 12:49 | so that ppl would enter a call number for figures in one subfield, callnumber alpha in another. | |
| 12:50 | paul | we can't say to do that to our librarians i'm afraid ! |
| 12:50 | hdl | If we cannot tell them, |
| 12:50 | then it is up to US to make distinction. | |
| 12:50 | i.e. : when adding a biblio, | |
| 12:51 | split cn into : | |
| 12:51 | classification / callnumber | |
| 12:51 | (on a callnumber delimiter systempref) | |
| 12:52 | Then see whether it is figures or alphabetical. | |
| 12:52 | And class it the right way. | |
| 12:52 | Many of our clients are requesting a solution for stocktaking. | |
| 12:59 | kados | yea, it's a tough prob |
| 13:02 | hdl | I do agree. |
| 13:03 | kados | OK, great |
| 13:03 | hdl | But it seems we would require at least 2 indexes on callnumber. |
| 13:05 | kados | yea, and that can be messy IMO |
| 13:05 | so do you guys have a plan for bug fixing 3.0? :-) | |
| 13:05 | paul | for this specific problem ? |
| 13:06 | not really | |
| 13:06 | kados | no, just in general |
| 13:06 | paul | I work almost full time on bugfixing. |
| 13:06 | kados | excellent |
| 13:06 | paul | for at least the 2 or 3 coming weeks |
| 13:07 | kados | great news! |
| 13:07 | paul | most of our impatient clients have accepted to delay 3.0 setup for some more time. only 1 remaining that need something for oct, 24 |
| 13:07 | hdl take care of it. | |
| 13:07 | the french translation of the new templates are done. | |
| 13:08 | kados | cool |
| 13:10 | paul | kados : I have only a we bugs affected atm. does every liblime assignee take care of their ? |
| 13:10 | (only 37 for me, 224 overall) | |
| 13:11 | kados | I've asked chris and ryan to focus on blockers this week |
| 13:11 | paul | I may be able to fix some bugs that are not mine, but how to be sure a liblimer isn't working on it ? |
| 13:11 | kados | they will announce each one they plan to fix before fixing it |
| 13:11 | paul | what about setting statut=ASSI on bugs taken |
| 13:11 | in the bug notes ? | |
| 13:11 | kados | yep, and they will update the assigned status to themselves |
| 13:12 | paul | ok, thx |
| 13:12 | kados | if you want to work on a bug, just change yourself to the assignee and say 'I'm working on it' |
| 13:12 | paul | for sure. I already did id some times. (& just reaffect to you a bug you've written "partial fix commited, will continue soon" |
| 13:14 | kados | ok, thanks |
| 13:17 | paul | kados : about Z3950NormalizeAuthor = |
| 13:18 | in UNIMARC, an author can be in 200$f and in 700 (as an authority) | |
| 13:18 | usually, and it's supposed to be that, the 200$f should always be filled. | |
| 13:18 | but on some catalogues, it can be empty if the 700 is filled with the authority. | |
| 13:19 | as we have author ordering on 200$f, those records are uncorrectly sorted as '' (1st position) | |
| 13:19 | the Z3950NormalizeAuthor fills the 200$f with the 700 if 200$f is empty & the library want it to be auto filled | |
| 13:19 | hope that sounds more clear. | |
| 13:20 | not sure it can be useful for a marc21 library... | |
| 13:20 | kados | yep, doesn't sound like it's a marc21 feature |
| 13:20 | thanks for the explanation | |
| 13:20 | paul | (otherwise, MARCfindbreeding patch almost done) |
| 13:20 | http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1473 | |
| 13:21 | kados | paul++ |
| 13:22 | (just summarlize your comments :-)) | |
| 13:32 | paul | kados : any opinion about ireport ? |
| 14:10 | kados | huh, interesting |
| 14:10 | it's Java | |
| 14:10 | :( | |
| 14:10 | means it's going to be hard to troubleshoot later | |
| 14:10 | paul | same reaction : :( |
| 14:10 | yep | |
| 14:11 | kados | plus, we already hav a new stats module that's coming along nicely |
| 14:11 | paul | do you know a good reporting tool that don't require java ? |
| 14:11 | another idea then ? | |
| 14:11 | (the subject is not yet defined ) | |
| 14:11 | kados | we have built our own |
| 14:11 | it's a very difficult process! | |
| 14:12 | we should be done with testing this week | |
| 14:12 | paul | I know. In my previous position, we had investigated to find something |
| 14:12 | kados | and I can show you something perhaps next week |
| 14:13 | we have a three-phase process, and we're on phase 1 | |
| 14:16 | hdl | paul, kados, maybe talend could provide some bricks for that ? |
| 14:19 | kados | talend? |
| 14:20 | ahh, neat | |
| 14:20 | paul | kados : talend is pierrick company ;-) |
| 14:22 | kados | ahh, cool |
| 14:22 | pierrick++ | |
| 14:22 | he owns the company, or just works there? | |
| 14:22 | paul | just works here |
| 14:22 | kados | ahh, ok :-) |
| 14:22 | otherwise, I'd be very impressed :-) | |
| 14:22 | (still impressed) :-) | |
| 14:40 | slef | hi all. I've ala written on my schedule for now but I can't remember why... are the ALA doing anything interesting online now? ;-) |
| 14:47 | kados | ALA = American Library Association? |
| 14:58 | hdl | new Authorities Editor based on MARCeditor on the way. |
| 15:10 | kados | hdl++ |
| 15:10 | hdl: I noticed something else, maybe you can explain | |
| 15:10 | it's in the frameworks editor for authorities | |
| 15:10 | hdl | yes ? |
| 15:11 | kados | it has the visibility flags separated out into three areas, editor, opac and staff |
| 15:11 | did you do that? | |
| 15:11 | it's very nice | |
| 15:11 | it woudl be a nice addition to the biblio frameworks | |
| 15:12 | hdl | I would like to say yes. But unfortunately, it is tumer's code. |
| 15:12 | I did not test if it worked as expected. | |
| 15:14 | kados | ahh, ok |
| 15:14 | hdl | But I think provided we have a char, we can map to existing behaviour |
| 15:20 | kados | *nod* |
| 15:20 | it's nice window dressing, to add after we have fixed blockers :) | |
| 15:35 | [K] | *** join #kohaFreeNode: eloise212 n=aimecscpe-74-79-243-242.twcny.res.rr.com |
| 15:35 | *** part FreeNode!#koha: eloise212 n=aimecscpe-74-79-243-242.twcny.res.rr.com |
|
| 16:13 | paul | kados around ? |
| 16:15 | kados | paul: yep |
| 16:15 | paul | i have a marc21 default setup. |
| 16:15 | i have checked all checkboxes, so I have many datas. | |
| 16:16 | seems I have a lot of patrons, with personnal datas. | |
| 16:16 | are the personal datas "false" ? | |
| 16:16 | otherwise, i think it's a major problem (at least if I was a patron & discovered my address & phone... are installed with Koha, i would be very very unhappy !) | |
| 16:18 | kados | yes, it's all false info |
| 16:18 | completely random | |
| 16:19 | ryan | made from a list of most popular names in US. |
| 17:00 | paul | bye bye world. see you tomorrow |
| 17:01 | kados | later paul |
| 17:01 | paul_away | (8 patches from hdl to test, i'll do it in the morning. 8 patches sent) |
| 17:02 | kados | great |
| 17:02 | we'll get those pushed through tonight | |
| 20:12 | hdl | kados : |
| 20:12 | are you around ? | |
| 20:16 | chris | i think he is on a flight at the moment hdl |
| 20:16 | hdl | chris : I wanted to have a brainstorming with him about bulkedit. |
| 20:16 | Do you know something about this feature ? | |
| 20:26 | chris ? | |
| 20:26 | chris | hmm nope, what is it for? bulkediting marc records? |
| 20:27 | hdl | yes. |
| 20:27 | chris | sounds like a good feature |
| 20:27 | hdl | I did it on Result page. |
| 20:27 | But Joshua asked to do it preferably in tools. | |
| 20:28 | My problem is that I see 4 different uses for this tool : | |
| 20:28 | basket | |
| 20:28 | virtualshelves | |
| 20:28 | result of a ccl query | |
| 20:29 | chris | right |
| 20:29 | hdl | direct search. |
| 20:29 | (pqf query) | |
| 20:29 | chris | does he want the bulkedit script to live in tools? or the whole thing? |
| 20:30 | i guess we need to ask him that | |
| 20:30 | hdl | This is my question. |
| 20:30 | The whole thing would require to duplicate search and results. | |
| 20:31 | chris | yes, that wouldnt be good, because it will get out of synx |
| 20:31 | hdl | anyway, librarians should have a way to create a basket in intranet. |
| 20:31 | chris | sync |
| 20:31 | yep | |
| 20:31 | i agree | |
| 20:31 | hdl | This is what I think too. |
| 20:32 | Would you tell him if you happen to get in touch with him tonight ? | |
| 20:33 | chris | sure will |
| 20:33 | hdl | (he marked this as blocker :S ) |
| 20:35 | good nite. | |
| 20:35 | chris | good night, sleep well |
| 20:35 | hdl_away | will try |
| 20:44 | kados | bulkedit should be in tools, it shouldn't be available after every search |
| 20:44 | esp since the html it generates is HUGE | |
| 20:44 | but it's a nice feature | |
| 20:45 | chris | ok |
| 20:45 | but could it work | |
| 20:45 | by you going by tools | |
| 20:45 | and the link there is a link to the search page, with a variable passed in, bulkedit=1 | |
| 20:46 | so you do a search, and it passes bulkedit=1 to the results too | |
| 20:46 | and then you get the bulkedit | |
| 20:46 | kados | yea, that'd work |
| 20:46 | chris | cool |
| 20:46 | kados | that would be cnfusing thoug |
| 20:46 | though | |
| 20:47 | chris | well you could do things in the template |
| 20:47 | kados | it's not clear to the librarian that you're in 'bulk edit' mode |
| 20:47 | chris | if bulkedit |
| 20:47 | kados | if we could maek that explicit it'd be fine |
| 20:47 | chris | <h1>Bulk Editing</h1> |
| 20:47 | kados | yea |
| 20:47 | chris | thats how catalogue maintenance worked |
| 20:47 | kados | cool |
| 20:48 | chris | that way we dont have to rewrite the search |
| 20:48 | kados | yea, makes sens |
| 20:57 | chris | theres a big one that i couldnt apply, of french templates, i think maybe the locales on merry are wrong or something .. somthing to with utf8 anyway |
| 20:57 | so im getting paul to send it to my liblime address, see if zimbra and the mac handle it better | |
| 21:00 | kados | strange |
| 21:00 | chris | i got it with the french systempreferences |
| 21:00 | corrupt patch | |
| 21:01 | and if you look at it, its got manky characters | |
| 21:01 | instead of the proper accents etc | |
| 21:01 | so at some point its getting converted to ascii/iso-9960 (or whatever) | |
| 21:01 | which is busting it up | |
| 21:02 | kados | you check your mutt setings? |
| 21:02 | it could also be postfix I guess | |
| 21:02 | chris | yeah |
| 21:02 | so if it comes thru to my liblime mailbox ok | |
| 21:02 | then that narrows it down to something on merry | |
| 21:03 | if it still comes thru munched | |
| 21:03 | kados | *nod* |
| 21:03 | chris | then its something else |
| 06:48 | paul | hello world. |
| 06:48 | chris around ? | |
| 08:17 | chris | hi paul |
| 08:17 | i am now | |
| 08:17 | paul | hello chris. |
| 08:17 | 2 questions : | |
| 08:17 | - do you know why kados reverted my #1485 patch ? | |
| 08:18 | chris | ahh he sent you a mail i think |
| 08:18 | paul | he sended me a mail, to say he had problems with it |
| 08:18 | chris | i think it didnt fix the problem |
| 08:19 | paul | I will speak of this with kados later then. I haven't updated my copy atm. |
| 08:19 | but if I do i'll revert my patch | |
| 08:19 | how can I un-revert it again ? | |
| 08:19 | (to test & complete it if needed) | |
| 08:19 | chris | ahh you can revert the revert :) |
| 08:20 | its commit 464b0e25e798a87b2b124e840c8eeebb46ade7eb | |
| 08:20 | so you can revert 464b0e25e798a87b2b124e840c8eeebb46ade7eb | |
| 08:20 | and that will revert it | |
| 08:21 | or | |
| 08:21 | paul | right ! then kados will revert the revert of the revert of the patch. |
| 08:21 | chris | hehe |
| 08:21 | yep | |
| 08:21 | paul | sounds nice ;-) |
| 08:21 | my 2nd question then: | |
| 08:21 | chris | or you can apply the patch |
| 08:21 | that you sent to joshua, and that will make the changes | |
| 08:21 | so 2 ways to do it | |
| 08:22 | paul | in the default english loaded datas, there are some branches defined. |
| 08:22 | with some branchcategories : | |
| 08:22 | chris | hmm |
| 08:22 | paul | INSERT INTO branchcategories ( `categorycode`,`categoryname`,`codedescription`) VALUES |
| 08:22 | -- Org Unit-style categories | |
| 08:22 | ('CON', 'Consortium', 'Consortium library category for scoped searching'), | |
| 08:22 | INSERT INTO branchrelations ( `branchcode`,`categorycode`) VALUES | |
| 08:22 | ('ML','BRA'), -- branch-level library | |
| 08:22 | ('MAIN','PE'), -- for acqui | |
| 08:23 | ('SPL','SYS'), -- system-level library | |
| 08:23 | does branchcategories really work ? | |
| 08:23 | what does it do ? | |
| 08:23 | chris | getbranches() |
| 08:23 | can take a categorycode as an argument | |
| 08:24 | so at HLT | |
| 08:24 | the have some branches which are categorycode IS (of issuing) | |
| 08:24 | and some which arent | |
| 08:24 | in the opac-reserve.pl it only gets branches which are of category IS | |
| 08:25 | so people can only choose to pick up a reserve from a branch that can issue | |
| 08:26 | so they might also have a branch they call Mending (where a book goes when its damaged to be fixed) | |
| 08:26 | paul | wow ! I never saw that feature ! |
| 08:26 | mmm... | |
| 08:26 | opac-reserve.pl says : | |
| 08:26 | my $branches = GetBranches(); | |
| 08:26 | need some fixes it seems ;-) | |
| 08:27 | chris | yeah, at hlt it says my $branches = GetBranches('IS'); |
| 08:27 | yeah, it needs to be documented and fixed, i think joshua was documenting it | |
| 08:27 | paul | ok, thanks. |
| 08:29 | wow... an analysis of F <> NZ match... | |
| 08:29 | chris | hehe |
| 08:29 | paul | france won 197 to 47 |
| 08:29 | ... | |
| 08:29 | for "plaquages" ! | |
| 08:29 | chris | ? |
| 08:29 | paul | (don't know the word in english) |
| 08:29 | when you make a guy falling | |
| 08:29 | chris | hmmm i wonder if google can tell us |
| 08:29 | tackle | |
| 08:29 | paul | yep |
| 08:30 | chris | yeah, france won because they defending so well |
| 08:30 | paul | 30% vs 70% of ball owning |
| 08:30 | chris | yeah |
| 08:30 | nz has no one to blame except themselves, they had much more ball, but made to many mistakes | |
| 08:33 | but now you must beat england .. or slef will laugh at both of us :-) | |
| 08:33 | paul | for sure ! |
| 09:01 | chris | http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…]hp?g2_itemId=9824 |
| 09:01 | kahurangi with food stuck on his nose :) | |
| 10:04 | kados | paul: you around? |
| 10:04 | paul | hi kados |
| 10:04 | yep | |
| 10:04 | kados | paul: did you see my note about the one patch? |
| 10:04 | paul | (although going to lunch in a few minuts) |
| 10:04 | yep | |
| 10:04 | & i need more info... | |
| 10:04 | you wrote : | |
| 10:05 | I tried applying this patch, then re-installing Koha and testing the | |
| 10:05 | fines saving. | |
| 10:05 | kados | right |
| 10:05 | paul | but my patch was about *issuing* rules, not fines |
| 10:05 | kados | hmmm |
| 10:05 | I thought the bug was about *finds* rules | |
| 10:06 | paul | + the itemtype default are useless because they mean nothing functionnaly. |
| 10:06 | kados | really? |
| 10:06 | they have meaning for my libraries | |
| 10:06 | paul | mmm... I may have miswritten the note. |
| 10:07 | the feature "an adult can issue 3 books, 2 videos, but no more than 4 things" is ok, for sure | |
| 10:07 | but the feature " an adult can issue 3 books, a children can issue 2 books, a staff member can issue 5 books, but nobody can issue more than 5 books means nothing" | |
| 10:07 | kados | paul: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1485 (it's a bug report about fines rules) |
| 10:08 | hmmm | |
| 10:08 | that's not what 'default' means in the US context | |
| 10:08 | in the US, it means 'if you don't specific a value by borrower type, here is the default' | |
| 10:09 | so it means 'by default, everyone can issue 5 books' | |
| 10:09 | then, maybe you will specify that 'children' can only issue 3 books | |
| 10:09 | but adults, staff, etc., may just be in the default | |
| 10:10 | does that make sense? | |
| 10:10 | paul | i'm afraid no |
| 10:10 | ah, ok | |
| 10:10 | got it. | |
| 10:10 | but it's not the way it's handled by koha. | |
| 10:11 | it does not mean "default", it means "any case" | |
| 10:11 | think the itemtype rule : | |
| 10:11 | 3 books, 5 videos, 5 total maximum | |
| 10:11 | when you issue something, every rule is checked | |
| 10:12 | kados | most applications provide for rules that transition from 'general rule' to 'specific rule' |
| 10:12 | that's what users expect | |
| 10:12 | and that's how Koha 2.2 works | |
| 10:12 | I'm not sure if that's changed in 3.0 | |
| 10:12 | paul | ??? no ! |
| 10:12 | that not how it works in 2.2 | |
| 10:13 | kados | hmmm |
| 10:13 | so if you fill out the default values they will override all other values? | |
| 10:13 | paul | that's one of the reason why we had some/many questions. |
| 10:13 | nope. | |
| 10:13 | all values are checked. | |
| 10:13 | if a cell is empty, it is considered as 0,0 | |
| 10:14 | (0 = no issuing possible) | |
| 10:14 | a lot of users thought that the most right line was for "consider this if I don't fill a cell", but it was not the way it worked. | |
| 10:14 | (and it is still not) | |
| 10:14 | we could reintroduce that feature in this way | |
| 10:15 | but that would be confusing with itemtype wildcard | |
| 10:15 | (3 books, 5 dvd, 5 total) | |
| 10:15 | which is totally different. | |
| 10:15 | kados | what's total? |
| 10:15 | paul | "any document" |
| 10:15 | don't you have such rules in US ? | |
| 10:15 | in Marseille, PL, the rules are : | |
| 10:15 | - up to 10 books | |
| 10:16 | kados | so '*' means 'any document' ? |
| 10:16 | paul | - up to 1 DVD |
| 10:16 | - up to 1 fiction DVD | |
| 10:16 | - up to 10 documents averall | |
| 10:16 | yep, * = any doc | |
| 10:16 | kados | wow, that's not what people think at all! |
| 10:16 | this needs to be discussed on koha-devel | |
| 10:16 | paul | and the previous * on the left means * = any patron category, which is silly |
| 10:17 | s/left/right | |
| 10:17 | kados | it's not silly at all |
| 10:17 | paul | if we consider it as fdefault, right |
| 10:17 | kados | most US libraries assume it is a default that can be overridden by a more specific case |
| 10:17 | paul | not silly at all. |
| 10:17 | kados | same with the itemtype * |
| 10:17 | we need a separate one for 'total' | |
| 10:17 | that is more explicit | |
| 10:17 | total != * | |
| 10:18 | I think we need this to be discussed on koha-devel | |
| 10:18 | it's a very important topic | |
| 10:18 | paul | I agree. |
| 10:18 | kados | I'm glad I asked :-) |
| 10:18 | paul | I let you go to breakfast, I go to lunch |
| 10:19 | kados | ok, sounds good |
| 10:19 | paul | (how does npl handle that ... as it's the way it works in 2.2) |
| 10:19 | (& in dev_week as well probably) | |
| 10:19 | you send the mail to koha-devel, or I do it ? | |
| 10:20 | (as you want) | |
| 10:24 | kados | paul_lunch: could you send it? thx :-) |
| 10:24 | have a good lunch |
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