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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 13:26 | Brooke | howdy |
| 13:26 | dewey | what's up, Brooke |
| 13:26 | Brooke | not much |
| 13:26 | how's it going? | |
| 14:00 | howdy | |
| 14:03 | slef | hi all |
| 14:03 | /names | |
| 14:03 | [K] | *** #kohaFreeNode names: [K] rangi ru55el |
| 14:03 | kados | hey slef |
| 14:04 | slef: we didn't announce the git move primarily because we're still leanring how to use it | |
| 14:04 | slef: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]lopment:git_usage | |
| 14:04 | slef | is CVS still live? |
| 14:04 | kados | slef: http://git.koha.org |
| 14:04 | CVS still exists, but we're not using it | |
| 14:04 | we meaning paul and liblime | |
| 14:05 | looks like sanop have just committed some stuff there | |
| 14:05 | which one of us will have to port to git | |
| 14:05 | slef | you're not using the serene tree which pulls from CVS? |
| 14:05 | paul | kados : seems that what sanop commited today is just an indenting stuff |
| 14:05 | (hello kados & slef however) | |
| 14:05 | slef | paul: you mean indent changes only? |
| 14:06 | kados | paul: ahh, ok, maybe we can just do perltidy? |
| 14:06 | paul | slef : yes. |
| 14:06 | kados : maybe (even if I think hard to read perltidyed code) | |
| 14:06 | i'll become more confident in the next weeks I think | |
| 14:06 | slef | (not to koha) |
| 14:06 | paul | LART ? |
| 14:07 | slef | Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool |
| 14:07 | Also known as a 'clue-by-four' | |
| 14:07 | looks surprisingly like a plank | |
| 14:07 | I don't think they'll do it again ;-) | |
| 14:09 | paul | kados : mail sent to your mailbox, about patches management. |
| 14:11 | kados | paul: checking |
| 14:12 | paul | hdl coming back from Dakar (senegal) today... (an IFLA conference : http://www.dakar.aliaco.com/) |
| 14:12 | kados | cool |
| 14:13 | sweet | |
| 14:13 | slef | can anyone tell me whether this URL prompts them what to save as: |
| 14:14 | kados | slef: I committed one fix to git that was causing that |
| 14:14 | it was because the content-type was wrong | |
| 14:15 | http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]088b44dac9154fefb | |
| 14:16 | this was the problem line: | |
| 14:16 | + -type => 'text/html; charset=utf-8', | |
| 14:16 | - -type => 'utf-8', | |
| 14:16 | - -cookie => $cookie | |
| 14:16 | + -type => 'text/html; charset=utf-8', | |
| 14:16 | sorr | |
| 14:16 | sorry | |
| 14:16 | my internet's acting up | |
| 14:17 | slef | owowow Lang just rude into the barrier horizontal |
| 14:19 | kados: that's a problem, but I don't think it causes this | |
| 14:19 | can anyone tell me whether this URL prompts them what to save as: | |
| 14:19 | http://11ns.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha[…]=&isbn=0521606322 | |
| 14:20 | kados | not in firefox |
| 14:20 | slef | (by the way, z3950/search.pl seems not to check librarian authentication) |
| 14:20 | phone | |
| 14:20 | paul | not in ff for me either. |
| 14:20 | kados | wait |
| 14:20 | if I click 'search internet' it does | |
| 14:24 | paul | same behaviour on konqueror. |
| 14:24 | the IES when you click may be an Auth problem... | |
| 14:28 | slef | off-phone |
| 14:28 | ah, yes, it does for me when I click search | |
| 14:32 | the z39.50 search is erroring and the script is crashing | |
| 14:35 | download is 0-bytes | |
| 14:35 | download seems to be prompted by apache | |
| 14:35 | so everyone's sort-of-right | |
| 14:36 | kados | paul: all your stuff should be pushed to git.koha.org |
| 14:36 | paul: can you verify? | |
| 14:37 | paul | (but my suggestion about mails is still valid...) |
| 14:37 | kados | yes I agree |
| 14:37 | we also need a better test procedure, between chris and I | |
| 14:37 | slef | USA's Leipheimer sets new best time (individual time trial) |
| 14:37 | kados | because IMO every piece of code should be tested before pushed to git.koha.org |
| 14:37 | not just eyeballed | |
| 14:38 | paul | that will be a huge huge stuff... |
| 14:38 | slef | leader Jens Voigt just set a best time at the intermediate check, though... |
| 14:38 | kados++ | |
| 14:40 | hrm, even if I feed my z search garbage, it doesn't break like that | |
| 14:40 | kados | paul: what do you think the role of updatedatabase is? |
| 14:41 | paul | update the datatabase between 2 versions |
| 14:41 | minor or major ones. | |
| 14:41 | except "super major" (koha 3.x => koha 4.x) | |
| 14:42 | kados | afaik, the updatedatabase in 3.0 curently is worthless |
| 14:42 | paul | why ? |
| 14:42 | kados | unless you know something I don't |
| 14:42 | well, #1, we don't have stable database definition | |
| 14:42 | for 3.0 | |
| 14:42 | and #2, it has old database defs from 2.2, etc. | |
| 14:43 | paul | it does 90% of the upgrade from 2.2 to 3.0. The 10% missing being the specific stuff to create marcxml and move some fields. |
| 14:44 | kados | one library, that uses a small subset of features |
| 14:44 | paul | Idid EXACTLY what is written on : 22_to_30 wiki page |
| 14:44 | kados | and only unimarc ;-) |
| 14:44 | paul | yep, but the unimarc specific stuff is really small. |
| 14:45 | kados | I bet that: |
| 14:45 | 1. 2.2 -> updatedatabase -> 3.0 | |
| 14:45 | 2. koha < kohastructure.sql (via installer) | |
| 14:45 | 1 != 2 | |
| 14:47 | Brooke | grrr |
| 14:47 | kados | I bet that 2.2 -> updatedatabase -> 3.0 results in a different database structure than kohastructure.sql |
| 14:47 | Brooke | If I had $ I'd take a French course |
| 14:47 | and a CSI course | |
| 14:47 | kados | heh |
| 14:47 | paul | (CSI course ???) |
| 14:47 | Brooke | Informatique |
| 14:48 | paul | in some indexes & maybe a few foreign keys you're probably right. |
| 14:48 | but not more than this (or i made something wrong, which is always possible ;-) ) | |
| 14:49 | kados | Brooke: would you be willing to test migrating from 2.2. to 3.0? |
| 14:50 | Brooke: on a non-production system of course | |
| 14:50 | Brooke | what's this non production system you speak of? |
| 14:50 | paul | I have 3 or 4 migrations from 22 to 30 to come in september... |
| 14:50 | kados | hehe |
| 14:50 | Brooke | I don't see why not |
| 14:50 | I can nag me husband to do it | |
| 14:51 | are the files out there someplace in the aether? | |
| 14:52 | kados | Brooke: sort of |
| 14:52 | Brooke: http://git.koha.org | |
| 14:53 | we don't have a release packaged yet | |
| 14:53 | slef: how's the installer coming? | |
| 14:53 | slef | kados: working on it this afternoon after text/x-perl |
| 14:53 | kados | slef++ |
| 14:53 | paul | slef +++++ |
| 14:53 | kados | paul: how is re-writing borrower management coming? :-) |
| 14:54 | paul: and have you seen bug reports from owen? | |
| 14:54 | paul | ??? you're waiting for me to do it ??? |
| 14:54 | yes about the bug reports from owen. | |
| 14:54 | kados | paul: and have you tested the authorities editor, we can't get it working |
| 14:54 | ahh, I thought you were re-writing borrowers | |
| 14:54 | paul | mmm... works fine on my setup... |
| 14:54 | kados | I may have missunderstood |
| 14:55 | paul | http://i15.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]es/authorities.pl |
| 14:55 | (abel/abel) | |
| 14:55 | no, I thought YOU were rewritting borrowers. | |
| 14:55 | kados | hehe |
| 14:56 | paul: would you like to see what happens running the installer, importing authorities, and trying authorities.pl? | |
| 14:56 | paul | you showed me something few months ago, saying the code size dropped from 1500 to 250 lines iirc |
| 14:56 | kados | I will give you access to my vhost |
| 14:57 | paul | hdl should have some time to devote to you next week |
| 14:57 | kados | 1. remove all features that are broken |
| 14:57 | 2. delay the release further | |
| 14:57 | paul | 3. release a beta, with the list of what is broken, and delay the stable release a little |
| 14:58 | kados | I'd consider #3, but not with major features broken |
| 14:58 | paul | 1. seems impossible to me... |
| 14:59 | Brooke | I like 4 |
| 14:59 | opps | |
| 14:59 | 3 | |
| 14:59 | kados | if minor parts of a feature are not working, that's fine |
| 14:59 | but when major features are just throwing 500 errors by default | |
| 14:59 | that's just going to spread FUD | |
| 15:00 | slef | we need a general 500-catcher |
| 15:00 | kados | slef: people just need to test their code more :-) |
| 15:00 | paul | wow... 500 errors ? I haven't seen that since months. Maybe it's because i'm working with a 22 => 3.0 database... |
| 15:00 | slef | kados: what works one place won't work for another - witness this z problem |
| 15:01 | kados | paul: and that's why we have a problem :-) |
| 15:01 | paul: that's why I don't trust updatedatabase :-) | |
| 15:01 | I think that kohastructure.sql != updatedatabase | |
| 15:01 | paul | why do you trust more kohastructure.sql than 22+updatedatabase ? |
| 15:01 | kados | there should be one authoritative place for the sql definition for 3.0 |
| 15:02 | not two | |
| 15:02 | paul: I only trust it more because it's readable | |
| 15:02 | paul: updatedatabase isn't readable without spending 3 hours reading it :-) | |
| 15:02 | I can't just go look up the structure of table X for instnace | |
| 15:05 | slef | you can, but it's in N parts |
| 15:06 | kados | yea |
| 15:06 | the point is, we're all working off a different database structure | |
| 15:08 | paul | kados : would it be usefull for you to have ipt sql structure ? |
| 15:08 | kados | yep |
| 15:08 | and sanop too | |
| 15:08 | and whatever other koha systems you have installed too | |
| 15:11 | paul: features should work after a stock installation IMO | |
| 15:12 | paul | stock ? |
| 15:12 | kados | when I run the web installer on a brand new install |
| 15:12 | all major modules should compile and run the basic functions of the module | |
| 15:12 | that's my definition of a 'beta' | |
| 15:12 | paul | agree. |
| 15:13 | Brooke | hooray agreement |
| 15:13 | :) | |
| 15:13 | kados | stable is when all major modules compile, and all functions work |
| 15:13 | when I can run the installer and have all features working, I'll release 3.0 beta | |
| 15:13 | Brooke | sooo emmmm |
| 15:13 | as a whiny user | |
| 15:13 | when should we stop getting listened to in favour of the current features getting ironed out before new features are added? | |
| 15:14 | kados | paul: because it was broken |
| 15:14 | Brooke | I mean, you guys seem too nice to us. |
| 15:14 | paul | Brooke: that's difficult, because libraries are always OK to fund new features, never to sponsor fixing ones :\ |
| 15:14 | kados | paul: it caused the web installer to crash |
| 15:14 | paul: you can try it from the CVS version if you like | |
| 15:15 | Brooke | *nod* |
| 15:15 | I realise that you have to eat | |
| 15:15 | paul | how did you build the actual kohastructure.sql ? |
| 15:15 | Brooke | but should there be a point where folks scream no more new features til we fix the old? |
| 15:16 | kados | paul: I just reverted and I've been adding minor changes manually since then |
| 15:16 | IMO, from here on out, the kohastructure.sql should be edited manually | |
| 15:17 | and not the restul of a sql dump | |
| 15:17 | thx | |
| 15:18 | slef: you voiced an opinion on this on the koha-devel list IIRC | |
| 15:18 | Brooke | hmmmm |
| 15:18 | I have a perhaps stupid ide | |
| 15:18 | a | |
| 15:18 | paul | i've kdiff3-ed the 2 sql. there are a lot of differences : |
| 15:18 | Brooke | if Libraries sign on for a new feature |
| 15:18 | can part of the fee automatically go to fixing an old? | |
| 15:18 | paul | - 80% of them are varchar <=> char. not a problem, but strange. Maybe a consequence of a mySQL setup ? |
| 15:19 | - some are table that can be removes (5-6 on my side, 2-3 on your side) | |
| 15:19 | - some are foreign keys missing on my side | |
| 15:19 | - 3 missing columns on my side (the one recently added by hdl) | |
| 15:20 | only the foreign keys are important I think | |
| 15:22 | kados | paul: how do we know what tables can be removed? |
| 15:22 | paul | because they are useless :-D |
| 15:22 | like "websites" | |
| 15:22 | and marc_biblio | |
| 15:22 | dewey | somebody said marc_biblio was where you can find the relationship between marc_subfield_table.bibid and biblioitems.biblionumber in the 2.2 series of Koha |
| 15:22 | paul | wait, wait... |
| 15:23 | all my foreign key constraints are at the end of the dump. | |
| 15:23 | I don't know why... | |
| 15:23 | so there may be only a few diffs... | |
| 15:23 | kados : I suggest : | |
| 15:23 | -create database ipt | |
| 15:23 | - mysql ipt <ipt3(2).sql | |
| 15:23 | - mtysqldump ipt >ipt3(3).sql | |
| 15:24 | -mysqldump yourdb >yourdb.sql | |
| 15:24 | - kdiff3 ipt3(3).sql yourdb.sql | |
| 15:24 | kados | *nod* |
| 15:24 | paul | so you'll have the same dump look... |
| 15:24 | (you'll see some mysql text in french at the en as well ;-) ) | |
| 15:26 | kados | slef: what were the mysqldump options you preferred? |
| 15:26 | slef | Yes, I think the sql should be hand-maintained along with a changelog written in sql or perl as far as possible |
| 15:26 | erm | |
| 15:28 | -cdQ at least, maybe --compatible=ansi if you're using mysql-5 | |
| 15:30 | does/how does git.koha.org relate to the serene git? | |
| 15:30 | kados | slef: serene git? |
| 15:31 | slef | git://serene.ttllp.co.uk/opt/koha.git/ |
| 15:31 | kados | slef: I don't think it relates at all |
| 15:31 | slef | Announced in http://lists.nongnu.org/archiv[…]-06/msg00008.html |
| 15:31 | kados | slef: you'd ahve to ask chris though |
| 15:31 | I think we did a cvs convert ourselves | |
| 15:32 | slef | well that makes my life less simple... |
| 15:32 | kados | best wait for chris next week |
| 15:32 | he can tell you how he did it | |
| 15:32 | I wasn't around that day | |
| 15:33 | slef | can you please announce developments to koha-devel? |
| 15:33 | even if they're not ready/final | |
| 15:34 | kados | slef: I plan to announce git to koha-devel this weekend |
| 15:34 | slef | else it burns others |
| 15:35 | but you said we need chris next week to say how it relates to users of the current git? | |
| 15:37 | kados | who uses the current git? |
| 15:37 | I didn't realize that was a production git | |
| 15:37 | slef | don't know... it's public and I've not been following the logs |
| 15:38 | kados | paul: importing iptdb now |
| 15:39 | paul: will mysqldump and diff shortly | |
| 15:40 | slef | hrm, that was probably an error... doesn't look like it's logged |
| 15:44 | kados | paul: would it be worth having a meeting to go through kohastructure in detail and make choices? |
| 15:45 | even things like meduimtext vs text should be decided for official 3.0 | |
| 15:45 | and what default values should be | |
| 15:46 | and which constraints to use | |
| 15:46 | varchar vs char | |
| 15:47 | there are column differences for some tables too | |
| 15:47 | paul: ? | |
| 15:48 | Brooke | I'm off like a prom dress |
| 15:48 | I've to go to "work" | |
| 15:48 | kados | hehe |
| 15:48 | Brooke: cya | |
| 15:49 | paul | varchar vs char = I think it's a mysql version choice. iirc, for char <=3, it doen's matter, mysql does always char. otherwise, it's just the way mySQL stores the value internally. |
| 15:49 | mediumtext vs text = should always be longtext imho | |
| 15:49 | as text is SMALLtext iirc... | |
| 15:49 | I had some problems storing long marcxml (with +100 items iirc) | |
| 15:49 | kados | paul: shouldn't we have a meeting and step through each table? |
| 15:50 | I see about twice as many constraints in ipt | |
| 15:51 | slef: ? | |
| 15:51 | paul | otherwise, agree about a meeting, and constraint definitions. |
| 15:51 | twice as many constraints in ipt ??? | |
| 15:51 | kados | quite a few more are defined in ipt db |
| 15:56 | paul: kados.org/stuff/kohastructure-ipt.sql | |
| 15:56 | paul: for instance, look at the constraints on accountlines | |
| 15:57 | paul: compare to kados.org/stuff/kohastructure.sql | |
| 15:57 | paul | constraints missing should not cause Koha bugs externally. We may have problems with constraints, not without. (but that's fine : we can detect bugs or errors thanks to constraints) |
| 15:57 | sorry guys, i've been disconnected... | |
| 15:57 | I said : | |
| 15:57 | constraints missing should not cause Koha bugs externally. We may have problems with constraints, not without. (but that's fine : we can detect bugs or errors thanks to constraints) | |
| 15:57 | jmf : your kohastructure is marked "mySQL 4.1.x". Aren't you using mySQL 5 ? | |
| 15:58 | (that may be an explanation too) | |
| 15:58 | kados | the kohastructure is not 'mine' |
| 15:58 | paul | and havent recieved any answer |
| 15:58 | kados | I didn't create it |
| 15:58 | answer? | |
| 15:58 | dewey | answer is usually yes |
| 15:59 | paul | nothing after my sentence (1mn disconnected, I may have missed something) |
| 15:59 | kados | can you look at the kohastructure-ipt.sql |
| 15:59 | paul | where ? |
| 15:59 | on my desktop ? | |
| 15:59 | kados | maybe irc is acting up :-) |
| 15:59 | kados.org/stuff/ | |
| 15:59 | kohastructure-ipt.sql | |
| 15:59 | oops | |
| 15:59 | kados.org/stuff/kohastructure-ipt.sql | |
| 16:00 | slef | kados? |
| 16:00 | dewey | kados is probably champion alligator-wrestler in 7 counties |
| 16:00 | kados | look at the 5 constraints on accountlines for instance |
| 16:00 | dewey: botsnack | |
| 16:00 | dewey | :) |
| 16:00 | kados | paul: are all 5 of them meaningful? |
| 16:00 | it seems to me only 2 are | |
| 16:01 | slef: do you think we should have a meeting to go through the kohastructure? | |
| 16:01 | slef | sounds a good idea, but paul is away 10 days? |
| 16:02 | kados | yea, maybe when he gets back? |
| 16:02 | slef | so two weeks today? |
| 16:02 | kados | that works for me |
| 16:02 | paul: is that a good date for you too? | |
| 16:02 | paul | kados : right, fk2, fk3, fk4 and fk5 are the same. silly |
| 16:02 | but probably not causing harm | |
| 16:03 | aug, 31 then ? | |
| 16:03 | OK for me. | |
| 16:03 | kados | cool |
| 16:03 | I'll announce it on koha-devel | |
| 16:04 | paul: have a good trip | |
| 16:04 | paul | what time ? |
| 16:04 | dewey | somebody said time was 648 |
| 16:04 | paul | 18GMT ? |
| 16:04 | (6PM GMT) | |
| 16:04 | ok for me, when you want | |
| 16:04 | kados | 18:00 GMT works for me |
| 16:05 | slef: ? | |
| 16:05 | earlier for slef? | |
| 16:05 | paul | okfor me |
| 16:05 | slef | before 16GMT if possible, but I'll do 1800 if there's no better time |
| 16:05 | paul | except 5GMT,because it's dinner time. |
| 16:05 | 4PM GMT is OK | |
| 16:05 | kados | for me too |
| 16:05 | slef | paul: you eat dinner before breakfast? ;-) |
| 16:06 | paul | :-D |
| 16:07 | kados | slef: I'd like to talk abotu the installer when you have a chance |
| 16:07 | slef: is today good for that? | |
| 16:08 | slef | yes, as soon as I've finished slapping this disk and then kicked the other storage |
| 16:08 | paul | bye bye kados, see you in 2 weeks then |
| 16:08 | slef | bye paul... safe journey |
| 16:36 | ok, I think that's all working now | |
| 16:36 | I know I've an email about the installer awaiting reply, by the way | |
| 16:37 | but I'll talk anyway | |
| 16:37 | kados | yea, I wasn't sure how to respond to that email actually |
| 16:37 | lemme pull it up | |
| 16:38 | what's the subject again? | |
| 16:38 | Development Schedule? that one? | |
| 16:39 | slef | searching... |
| 16:42 | Message-ID: <18380450.2021183984919108.JavaMail.rootmail.liblime.com> |
|
| 16:43 | sorry for the delay | |
| 16:44 | kados | my mail client doesn't work wtih message ids |
| 16:44 | subject? | |
| 16:44 | slef | the one you said |
| 16:44 | Development Schedule | |
| 16:44 | kados | k |
| 16:44 | slef | oh, I see another tab |
| 16:45 | kados | I did respond btw ;-) |
| 16:45 | slef | seems old |
| 16:45 | kados | Jul 9th |
| 16:45 | slef | "more coming soon"? |
| 16:45 | kados | yea |
| 16:45 | this is it mate :-) | |
| 16:45 | slef | is this the more? |
| 16:45 | ok | |
| 16:45 | cool | |
| 16:46 | kados | so what do you think about the comments first off |
| 16:46 | slef | I've stopped it running the tests and I disagree that it's the installer's job to be the INSTALL instructions |
| 16:46 | kados | ahh, ok |
| 16:46 | so lets identify the elements of an install and roles of those elements | |
| 16:46 | slef | but anyway, if we make this CPAN-friendly, the installer should be able to trigger the installation of the prereqs itself |
| 16:46 | kados | to make sure we have expectations set properly |
| 16:47 | triggering would be nice | |
| 16:47 | there are some things that can't be installed from CPAN obviously | |
| 16:47 | like zebra | |
| 16:48 | slef | indeed. should be a 1% job to add those to the packaging |
| 16:48 | kados | do we test for those things currently? |
| 16:48 | slef | not directly, but could |
| 16:48 | kados | there is a list of them in the install.pl file |
| 16:48 | but I'm not sure if hdl's method of testing is portable | |
| 16:49 | slef | what would I look for? A zebra binary? |
| 16:49 | kados | and whether there is a portable way of doing that anyway ... |
| 16:49 | that's a good question | |
| 16:49 | I'm not sure how to handle that in a portable way | |
| 16:49 | slef | might be safer to leave it to the packaging system |
| 16:49 | (s) | |
| 16:51 | kados | slef: ping me when you're back |
| 17:13 | thd | kados: have we switched to git? |
| 17:13 | kados | thd: we have |
| 17:14 | thd: announcement forthcoming | |
| 17:14 | thd | kados: so my CVS commits will have no effect? |
| 17:15 | kados | well, someone has to manually merge them with git |
| 17:15 | so far there have only been 5-6 or so | |
| 17:17 | thd | I am about to commit another 6 |
| 17:20 | kados | hmmm |
| 17:20 | thd: do you have git installed? | |
| 17:25 | slef | phone |
| 17:25 | thd | not yet |
| 18:33 | kados: so I have committed to CVS. I will have to learn git later. marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql now has authority links in CVS. | |
| 18:38 | kados | thanks thd |
| 18:39 | thd: does it also have the extra column for default value? | |
| 18:39 | thd | kados: the copy in HEAD does |
| 18:42 | kados: all 10 frameworks files for rel_2_2 and HEAD have been updated | |
| 18:43 | s/10/10 MARC 21/ | |
| 18:44 | kados: the only thing missing is last year's MARC 21 bibliographic format changes which were announced a few months ago. | |
| 18:53 | kados | thd: I'll update git |
| 18:53 | thd: thanks! | |
| 20:06 | slef | hahahaha |
| 20:07 | ---- Unsatisfied dependencies detected during [K/KO/KOHA/koha-2.9.2007081719.tar.gz] ----- | |
| 20:07 | Shall I follow them and prepend them to the queue of modules we are processing right now? [yes] | |
| 20:07 | now that's what I call music! | |
| 04:15 | [K] | *** join #kohaFreeNode: ru55el n=russel203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz |
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