IRC log for #koha, 2007-08-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
12:00 chris i helped out?
12:00 Brooke all the time
12:00 chris ahh :) cool thanks
12:01 Brooke virtual chocs can be delivered from anywhere to anywhere else
12:01 no nut allergies, too :)
12:03 chris hehe
12:03 Brooke dumb question
12:03 chris fire away
12:04 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=nchris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
12:04 Brooke how do I look at Book Funds? I'm clicking the little  100 and 101 for ALLCOM and Others over at the Liblime demo, and that seems to go over to an add screen.
12:05 chris ahh you want to see what has been spent in the bookfund instead?
12:05 Brooke yeah where do I need to clickerate for that
12:05 chris i think those templates dont have that set up
12:06 Brooke d'oh
12:06 chris lemme find a page that does and check its what you are after
12:06 and if so, then we can make put that on the todo list for the npl templates
12:06 Brooke hi jaro
12:06 n
12:08 jaron hiya, Brooke
12:08 chris hi jaron
12:08 jaron hi chris
12:08 Brooke how's it going?
12:09 jaron not so bad.
12:09 what brings you to #koha Brooke?
12:10 I don't know that I've seen you around
12:10 Brooke I figured that I'm single handedly helping depression in New Zealand >:)
12:10 chris brooke is our excelllent writer of the excellent Koha newbie guide
12:10 jaron great!
12:10 Brooke
12:10 Brooke++
12:10 documentation++
12:10 Brooke You guys have added so many  features
12:11 that the docs are WAY behind
12:11 chris Brooke: http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…]hp?g2_itemId=9439
12:11 Brooke and folks are asking me all manner of newfangled question
12:11 chris and if you click on the spent column for one of them you end up at
12:11 http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…]hp?g2_itemId=9442
12:11 is that what you were meaning?
12:12 Brooke yeah
12:12 those details lurked in my misty memory
12:12 but there was an error between the chair and the mouse
12:12 chris cool, yep i think those links are missing in the npl templates
12:13 Brooke I swear I'm not just trying to create work
12:13 chris dont spose either of you guys are going to library camp eh?
12:13 Brooke Library camp you say?
12:13 jaron I'm not going
12:13 chris http://librarycampnyc.wikispaces.com/
12:13 ill be there
12:14 Brooke nutty fudgekins, registration is booked
12:14 chris doh i should have asked sooner
12:15 where do you live brooke?
12:15 Brooke real close in Albany
12:16 world tour!
12:16 jaron anything going on in Philly?
12:16 chris athens ohio :)
12:16 Brooke shhhh
12:16 we'll have Greece soon
12:16 chris cheesesteaks jaron
12:17 Brooke It's an easy invasion from Italy. >:)
12:17 jaron they've been in the news lately--cheesesteaks
12:17 chris Brooke:got an invite to do a paper for a greek library conference :)
12:18 jaron: you on facebook?
12:18 jaron nope--why?
12:18 chris if so i can send you a link to something going down near philly
12:21 :)
12:30 hmm i wonder whats for breakfast .. what do you americans eat donuts and coffee? :P
12:32 jaron I'd prefer a bagel if I was going to have something round with a hole in the middle
12:32 chris good suggestion
12:32 jaron have you been to the States much?
12:32 chris yeah, my wife is from Pittsburgh originally
12:32 jaron I'm from the 'Burgh myself
12:33 chris oh cool
12:33 shes from west view
12:33 jaron well, to the east
12:33 Penn Hills and Monroeville
12:33 chris ohh cool
12:34 we get back to pgh usually once every couple of years
12:34 jaron that's about how often I get back there
12:35 now that I go back I see that it's not such a bad place in a lot of ways
12:35 when I was younger all I wanted to do was get out of there
12:35 chris yeah i quite like it
12:35 kados mornin
12:35 chris yeah, laurel and her brothers were the same
12:35 jaron Warhol, too :)
12:36 hi, kados
12:41 chris jaron:: i saw the steelers play the browns in cleveland  once, i think the fact i was an nzer was the only thing that saved me from being beaten up for cheering for the steelers :)
12:41 jaron heh
12:50 chris ok off to get some food
15:04 foxnorth hi all...
15:04 kados around?
15:05 kados hey foxnorth
15:05 dewey foxnorth is the programmer working on the new cataloging app for google summer of code
15:05 foxnorth hey kados
15:05 just reading through your emai-- i like your ideas
15:05 kados sweet
15:05 foxnorth i'm not clear though how you envision the tabs working--
15:06 do you see just two tabs total, one for work stuff and one for options?
15:06 or do you envision tabs within that work module for searching etc (kind of like now), and then another main options tab?
15:07 kados well ... good question
15:07 y'know, I'm not sure what the function if the second-level tabs (kind of like now) are
15:07 s/if/of/
15:08 I guess just that you can have several things going on at once?
15:08 was there a plan to make interaction between tabs possible at some point?
15:08 foxnorth right...so you can have a couple of records open if you want to, to compare
15:08 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: darcilicious n=plinkit@159.121.122.150
15:08 foxnorth ah that's a good point, i hadn't thought of that exactly
15:08 hhhm
15:08 jaron is that comparing in like a split view?
15:08 kados well, if we want to do a split view, that should be a feature
15:09 foxnorth a split view would work better in this case, you guys are right
15:09 kados ie, you select one or more records, put them into the 'split view' folder
15:09 foxnorth interesting idea
15:09 kados then you go into that folder and look at them, merge fields, etc.
15:09 foxnorth and maybe use something like your marc diff program jaron?
15:09 jaron I've done something like diff for my ruby script
15:09 foxnorth right- that's a very cool idea
15:10 kados chris also wrote a side-by-side merge thing for the koha marc editor
15:10 jaron but gui could make it much better
15:10 kados *nod*
15:10 foxnorth interesting
15:10 hhmm....
15:10 i guess i had originally envisioned being able to have multiple record tabs open, but i think you guys might have a better idea here...
15:10 kados but i think the main thing now is, we need to take a step back and look at the overall ui design and workflows
15:11 foxnorth after all, switching between tabs isn't too great
15:11 yeah i agree
15:11 jaron can I take a look at what you've got so far?
15:11 foxnorth definately!
15:11 jaron priv msg if you want
15:11 kados done
15:12 foxnorth: so what I'd say is, we have three tabs: search' 'edit' and 'options'
15:12 foxnorth uh huh
15:12 kados if you click on 'edit' without doing a search, you can make a new record
15:12 foxnorth would have to make that explicit
15:12 kados actually, maybe we shouldn't have an edit tab
15:13 foxnorth but that would work and be simpler than current approach
15:13 kados that'd be kinda confusing actually
15:13 foxnorth right- where would we stick the editor, though, if we have just 1 work tab?
15:13 jaron search should happen with an [ENTER] in the search box, btw.
15:13 foxnorth yeah, you're right
15:13 kados jaron: yea, that's on the list :-)
15:14 *thinking*
15:14 foxnorth the editor needs to be full screen and take up enough room to see it...
15:14 kados absolutely
15:14 foxnorth so the preview panel wouldn't be big enough
15:14 kados well, lets take zimbra
15:14 foxnorth i've got it open now
15:14 kados when you're reading a message, you don't see the list of messages
15:14 foxnorth is that right?
15:14 kados when you're making a new message, you don't see the list of messages
15:14 it's contextual
15:15 which I think makes a lot of sense
15:15 cuz you're really only ever doing one thing
15:15 foxnorth can you dbl click message to view it?  can't seem to do that
15:15 kados ahh, do you have your preview pane on?
15:15 foxnorth i see it in the preview pane only
15:15 yeah
15:15 kados well click on 'reply'
15:16 you'll see the list of messages goes away
15:16 foxnorth aaah
15:16 kados I guess for reading, you don't need the list to go away
15:16 foxnorth that makes more sense
15:16 ok well this is a good example of how to do it
15:16 just clicking edit button opens it up like this or something
15:16 kados *nod*
15:16 foxnorth and closing returns you to search list and preview
15:16 kados exactly
15:16 jaron what's a good search? I get search completed but to results :(
15:17 kados jaron: xml
15:17 foxnorth and record list can change depending on whether you click search results folder or save folder over at left
15:17 try xml as keyword
15:17 kados foxnorth: yea
15:17 foxnorth: that'd be quite trick I think
15:17 foxnorth jaron: i don't *think* "console not defined" errors should be popping up
15:17 kados and each server can be represented as a 'folderish' object
15:17 foxnorth right that's a great idea
15:17 kados ie, it changes the view
15:17 foxnorth as well as save files
15:18 jaron yeah, you definitely want to associate hit with servers
15:18 foxnorth and you just have 1 current search open at a time
15:18 kados jaron: it does already
15:18 jaron if I get a record from a good source I do less editing than some other sources
15:18 foxnorth right
15:18 kados jaron: look at the left-hand ... but it's just text for now
15:18 jaron I'm still not getting any records to show up :(
15:18 foxnorth arg
15:18 can you install/open firebug?
15:18 kados might need to delete your google gears directory
15:18 er ... the db for eowyn
15:19 bbiab
15:19 foxnorth jaron: could be there's an error which i thought i had fixed- if you check in firebug we can nail it down
15:20 jaron: just checked on mine
15:20 jaron: it is this debugging i have on
15:21 jaron: hang on 1 sec while i change that
15:21 jaron k
15:22 foxnorth jaron: sorry- try refreshign whole app now
15:22 jaron: should work
15:22 jaron: my fault for updating but not turning off debugging
15:22 jaron ok, now it works--thanks
15:23 foxnorth there actually should be a paging bar (records 1 of 40...) which apparently isn't displaying :(
15:23 i need to put that at the top of the list i think
15:23 brb
15:26 jaron hmmm...up and down arrows skip over records in the results
15:26 foxnorth jaron: hhm lemme try that
15:26 jaron: hhm doesn't seem to be skipping for me, but preview panel doesn't get updated
15:26 strange
15:27 jaron and then I want to just hit enter to edit the highlighted record
15:27 other little interface issues, but just quibbles right now :)
15:27 foxnorth good idea
15:27 all is welcome!
15:28 jaron: did you check the editor out?
15:29 jaron and I'm happy with the present layout of results and tabs for editing as long as I can use keystrokes to navigate between tabs
15:29 foxnorth uh huh
15:29 jaron yeah, some fields get cut off the bottom by the status bar
15:29 foxnorth yeah, that's no good
15:30 and there's still a lot of whitespace in the editor, isn't there?
15:30 tags could be closer spaced vertically i think
15:30 jaron yeah, it seem sthe indicators take up more than one line height
15:30 foxnorth fixed field editor still looks a little jumbled
15:30 jaron though it's good that they're narrower now :)
15:30 yes, it does
15:31 that's a difficult one because you don't want line breaks if you want to keep the same layout as other bib tools
15:32 foxnorth yeah
15:32 and i wanted to keep subfields all together within a tag like other programs
15:32 instead of breaking them out vertically or something
15:33 jaron I do like the subfield coloring
15:33 foxnorth cool i really wanted that
15:33 hard enough to read tags as it is
15:33 jaron for some reason when I click to edit a field the font gets smaller?
15:33 foxnorth yeah it does- it's opening up a little wysiwyg html editor in there
15:34 need to fix that of course
15:34 jaron i wonder if it'd be good to be more compact and have zebra stripes
15:34 foxnorth if we stick with this editor implementation
15:34 yeah, zebra stripes are a good idea
15:34 what else would you look for in an editor?
15:34 jaron allows the lines to be closer together and still tell what belongs to what
15:34 foxnorth i personally am a huge fan of keystrokes
15:34 yeah
15:35 jaron I don't want to click between fields to edit them I definitely want keyboard control it's faster
15:35 foxnorth as well as updating things like 260 |c from fixed field Date1
15:35 agreed
15:35 i definately want that too
15:35 can't stand mouse when cataloging
15:36 jaron have you thought about scripted or macro-like changes?  might be getting ahead of things
15:36 foxnorth definately
15:36 jaron good
15:36 foxnorth i'd like to allow plugins to do stuff like that
15:36 jaron nice
15:36 foxnorth make the editor as flexible and scriptable as possible
15:36 this is always what i strived for when cataloging!
15:37 with macros and such
15:37 jaron try clicking in the editor on a field that has more than one line--ie wraps
15:37 I can't do it right now
15:37 won't give focus to that field
15:37 foxnorth really...
15:37 i just managed it
15:38 could be these little wysiwyg editors misbehaving
15:38 i've had some misgivings about them
15:38 adn i'm not certain we should stick with them
15:38 could be better to have 1 big wysiwyg editor
15:38 and then parse fields to extract marc after
15:38 instead of having individual divs for each tag etc
15:38 not sure
15:38 jaron perl has marcmaker/breaker that could do that
15:38 only problem is you would probably loose context sensitive help
15:39 foxnorth that's right
15:39 which is 1 reason i split them up
15:39 that, and being able to drag/drop as well
15:39 it's a dilemma...
15:40 did you manage to get that multi line thing to focus?
15:40 jaron in the best world you would have a choice
15:40 foxnorth heh
15:40 well, that could be done
15:40 jaron no. it puts focus on the line above or below
15:40 foxnorth ah hah
15:40 jaron call it the experts editor
15:40 foxnorth haven't encountered that
15:40 hhmm
15:41 jaron seems to only happen when there are more than one lines with wraps in a row?
15:41 foxnorth interesting
15:41 lemme try on a diff record
15:41 jaron XML Schema Essentials
15:41 the 856 lines
15:42 foxnorth that's just what i've got open
15:42 but it's working for me
15:42 but i think these things may be a little flaky
15:42 jaron do the 856 lines wrap for you?
15:42 try a narrower browser window
15:43 foxnorth actually no, just the 505
15:43 ah wait
15:43 just clicked one and only the top focuses
15:43 doh
15:43 the problem is they've all got the same id!
15:43 jaron yeah
15:43 foxnorth silly me
15:44 better make a note of that one
15:44 a doozy
15:44 jaron while we're at it--there are two buttons between the tabs and the search and they are partly obscured
15:44 I can only see what they are from tooltips
15:45 search and save
15:45 foxnorth ah yeah
15:45 thsoe are small demo icons
15:45 we'll do something more visible
15:45 jaron k
15:46 foxnorth probably i'll use jquery to assign unique id's to multiple tags and then return them to single id for extracting marc on save
15:46 that should work i think
15:47 jaron yeah, you got me there
15:47 well, lunch time
15:47 feel free to ping anytime me if you need someone to poke at it more
15:47 foxnorth hey thanks for all the ideas!  it'd be great to integrate some of your ruby scripts as plugins for this thing!
15:48 jaron yeah, I could rewrite some in perl even
15:48 they're really trivial
15:48 foxnorth cool
15:48 jaron but together get a lot of work done
15:50 foxnorth very cool- what i always wanted to do as cataloger1
16:03 kados akk
16:03 sorry foxnorth
16:06 foxnorth: so ...
16:06 foxnorth: did we resolve the tabs stuff enough? what's the plan again?
16:08 ooh, jaron has some great ideas
16:08 foxnorth yeah!
16:10 what do we think about the tabs then?
16:10 i like the idea of having a clean interface with just the 1 search/edit tab
16:10 kados yea, i guess we need to chat abotu that
16:10 I think I agree
16:10 maybe ...
16:10 foxnorth and a persistent left hand folder tree as in zimbra?
16:10 kados Biblios | Authorities | Holdings | Options
16:10 foxnorth although having multiple record editors open wouldn't work so well
16:11 kados should be the tabs
16:11 maybe ...
16:11 foxnorth although what if i don't want to edit authorities and holdings?
16:11 kados well, you don't have to
16:11 foxnorth then they would be kind of useless for me
16:11 kados yep
16:11 foxnorth hhhmm
16:11 kados well in zimbra, if you don't use the 'documents' feature, it's useless
16:11 foxnorth true
16:11 kados but it's still a separate module
16:12 i think the point of the tabs is separate modules
16:12 so we might have another module later on we want to add
16:12 foxnorth hhmm.....i coudl see that
16:12 sure
16:12 kados (mabe in fact, the current tab is for biblios, authorities, holdings ... I dunno)
16:12 for at least for now we really just have two tabs I think
16:13 foxnorth and get around the multiple open records with the split idea
16:13 kados *nod*
16:13 foxnorth sorry i seem to be hung up on that! :)
16:13 but the split idea is a good one
16:13 and so each search would be put in a recent searches button/area
16:13 kados yup
16:14 foxnorth but only 1 search would be open at once in the view pane
16:14 kados yep
16:14 for now
16:14 foxnorth divided into server folders on the left hand tree list
16:14 kados I think for now we should focus on the core tasks
16:14 foxnorth agreed
16:14 kados and making the interface work smoothly for those
16:14 foxnorth yeah
16:14 i think the tree list i the last ui element of extjs i haven't used
16:15 will be fun to learn
16:15 and very intuitive
16:15 for the end user i hope
16:15 kados w00t
16:15 I can't wait until i can drag-drop a record from results into my save file :-)
16:15 foxnorth me too
16:15 in terms of save files
16:16 definately want to be able to name them to keep track of various projects etc
16:17 maybe best to create a new save file table to keep track of data about them
16:17 as it currently stands, the save files exist only in so far as each record has a particular status
16:17 not sure how complex we want to get
16:17 but for the future, a new table might allow more room for growth
16:18 ?
16:18 kados my idea
16:18 is to have save 'folders'
16:18 foxnorth right
16:18 kados so you have a root folder, and you can add new folders
16:18 and they should nest
16:18 foxnorth each would be row in save file table
16:18 yeah
16:19 that would be cool
16:19 kados so we have some default folders that you can'd delete
16:19 drafts is one
16:19 foxnorth how to track folder nesting in save file sql table?
16:19 that's a good idea
16:19 kados trash is another
16:19 foxnorth yeah
16:19 kados saved is another
16:19 then you can add subfolders to the saved one
16:19 if you want to further organize
16:19 foxnorth sure
16:20 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]lopment:git_usage
16:20 kados ext had some folder nesting stuff ... how do they track it?
16:20 there are a couple ways to handle it in sql
16:20 foxnorth not sure how they do it
16:20 may just be populated from xml and that's it
16:20 kados nested sets (hard to understand, but fast)
16:21 and store parentid is the other way
16:21 foxnorth makes sense
16:21 kados and order if you want to get fancy
16:21 foxnorth how do you mean?
16:22 kados well, probably makes sense to just order the folders by alphabetical
16:22 foxnorth ah you mean sorting them
16:22 kados yea
16:22 foxnorth actually i think ext has a tree sorter of some sorts
16:23 have you checked out the extjs documentation page?  some good examples on there
16:23 kados cool
16:23 foxnorth http://extjs.com/deploy/ext/docs/index.html
16:23 kados yea, i did peek yesterday
16:23 foxnorth ok let's see then
16:23 2 main tabs: a work tab and an options tab for now
16:24 kados yep
16:24 foxnorth within work tab a left hand tree list with servers to search/save and save folders
16:24 kados yep
16:24 foxnorth and a dual vertical pane in the middle with grid for view search results or save file
16:24 then opening a record from one of those
16:24 hides that contentpanel and shows the editor panel
16:24 kados brilliant
16:24 foxnorth closing record will of course return to default view
16:25 kados you got it
16:25 foxnorth that sounds very cool
16:25 kados and resident 'action' buttons that let the user perform tasks
16:25 foxnorth right
16:25 at top of tab
16:25 kados they have labels, icons and tooltips
16:25 foxnorth right
16:25 and change according to srch results, save file or editor views
16:25 dewey foxnorth: that doesn't look right
16:26 kados yep, exactly
16:26 foxnorth good
16:26 i think this will be a lot easier to navigate
16:26 along with keyboard shortcuts
16:26 (got to have those)
16:26 kados yep
16:26 hehe, should keep you busy :-)
16:26 foxnorth alright so time to get coding!
16:27 brb
16:51 scratch that-- bbiab
19:18 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
19:23 <darcilicious@FreeNode> heya ru55el :)
19:24 chris thats 'new dad' russel :)
19:27 [K] <ru55el@FreeNode> hiya darci
19:27 <darcilicious@FreeNode> that's right!!
19:27 <darcilicious@FreeNode> congratulations!! :)
19:28 <darcilicious@FreeNode> heya, chris -- how's the u.s. treating you so far? :)
19:28 chris so far so good
19:29 [K] <ru55el@FreeNode> thanks darci
19:32 chris its hot though :)
19:34 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> that's right, it's winter time where you came from :)
19:35 chris sure is, its some mental heat here today .. 92f (thats 33c for russ)
19:36 and it was about 12c when i left wellington
19:36 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> yowza
19:44 * ru55el@FreeNode wonders off
19:44 *** part FreeNode!#koha: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
19:48 *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
21:57 kados foxnorth_away: still around?
21:57 foxnorth_away: eowyn seems to have gone away
22:13 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> gotta go...
22:13 *** part FreeNode!#koha: darcilicious n=plinkit@159.121.122.150
22:19 foxnorth_away kados: oops
22:19 kados: lemme recopy that over to www
22:20 \me checking
22:21 kados: ok it's back. sorry 'bout that.  my mistake when updating svn
22:22 kados Trouble with db: Database operation failed. ERROR: database is locked DETAIL: database is locked
22:23 could we have a 'unlock db' button added to that error?
22:23 otherwise I have to delete the db every time
22:32 foxnorth yeah that's getting annoying isn't it. i've been closing and reopening firefox to get around
22:33 i need to investigate why that's popping up
22:33 i *think* i'm now closing all db connections
22:33 but it's entirely possible i've missed one/some or that's not it at all ...
23:17 kados w00t
09:21 Brooke hi
09:47 chris hey brooke, just sent you an email
09:47 you're up early .. whats ur excuse mine is my body thinks its in nz still :)
09:47 Brooke Outstanding, I'll check it in a sec - I'm mid email
09:47 I don't do the whole sleep thing well
09:47 Koha is a great excuse :D
09:48 chris hehe
09:51 Brooke I love having something to do no matter the hour. The world has to put me to some use for all the oxygen I steal
09:51 chris lol
09:56 Brooke :)
09:56 Wow that was quick
09:56 Chris ++
09:56 only my coding loops infinitely
09:57 Ah

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