← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:04 | thd | hdl: there is also the confusing verbose but pretty representation modelled after what LC has for MARCXML. |
| 12:04 | hdl: http://library.neu.edu.tr/kohanamespace/ | |
| 12:07 | hdl | Is it what they already use ? |
| 12:07 | thd | hdl?: I am not certain what he has in production |
| 12:08 | hdl: he certainly has it working on a test basis at least | |
| 12:10 | hdl: the only significant penalty for this design is greater time required for indexing large records if authorities are added | |
| 12:10 | hdl: that is why larger meta-records should be in a supplementary database which is not updated in real time | |
| 12:10 | hdl | But this can be overcome with batch updates I thinf |
| 12:10 | thd | yes |
| 12:11 | hdl: tumer now has real time updates set for 2 minutes so that he avoids timeout problems for Zebra | |
| 12:16 | hdl: of curse I want to do more than add authorities | |
| 12:17 | hdl: kados suggested adding FRBR relationships | |
| 12:18 | hdl: I want to go as far as allowing MARC 21, UNIMARC, IBERMARC, Dublin Core, ONIX, OAI, etc. to coexist in the same meta-record for the same work. | |
| 12:19 | hdl: maybe the non-MARC one could be translated to MARC first just to make things a little easier ;) | |
| 12:19 | s/one/ones/ | |
| 12:21 | hdl: I know that everyone will think that is crazy | |
| 12:23 | hdl | This IS a GREAT ideal. But need MUCH time, and I can't think who will be eager to get that stuff. |
| 12:23 | thd | hdl: I still need a system which can function as a universal OPAC holding hundreds of millions of records. |
| 12:24 | hdl: as long as the foundation is there the scripting to support it can be built slowly over time | |
| 12:24 | hdl | But if we achieve this, it will be great. |
| 12:25 | thd | hdl: in the Anglophone world LC already has added ONIX to MARC 21 records |
| 12:26 | hdl: OCLC, the worlds largest union catalogue has many many must be millions of Dubln Core records but they should if they invented and promoted them. | |
| 12:28 | hdl: It would be great for UNIMARC and MARC 21 libraries to be able to use the alternate format when they acquire material which has never previously been translated. | |
| 12:28 | s/translated/catalogued in the other record syntax/ | |
| 12:30 | hdl: tumer reports that Zebra Proxy has the usemarcon configuration files for using usemarcon to translate between UNIMARC and MARC21 in both directions. | |
| 12:31 | hdl: I just want to be able to search any important type of record consistently at a very exacting level of detail without needing to do repeated searches against different databases. | |
| 12:32 | hdl: I think that consistent searching across different record types is a very general desire. | |
| 12:34 | hdl: it is also something that the European Digital Library addresses. | |
| 12:34 | dewey | okay, thd. |
| 12:34 | owen | dewey: what is it? |
| 12:34 | dewey | or often necessary because the user may never successfully guess the authorised heading successfully unless the user is a librarian with years of experience or otherwise especially familiar with the authorised headings needed or something that the European Digital Library addresses. |
| 12:35 | owen | dewey: forget it |
| 12:35 | dewey | owen: I forgot it |
| 12:39 | thd | hdl: http://www.theeuropeanlibrary.[…]portal/index.html |
| 12:39 | hdl: takes me much longer to load now with all the new JavaScript | |
| 12:41 | owen: is there a command for never learn it? | |
| 12:42 | s/it/'it'/ | |
| 12:42 | owen | I don't know |
| 12:42 | thd | dewey: ignore it |
| 12:42 | dewey | thd: huh? |
| 12:44 | hdl | dewey : what is it ? |
| 12:44 | dewey | i don't know, hdl |
| 12:44 | hdl | dewey : what is FRBR ? |
| 12:44 | dewey | FRBR is not a record type |
| 13:09 | thd | dewey: what is FRBR? |
| 13:09 | dewey | hmmm... FRBR is Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records. http://www.ifla.org/VII/s13/frbr/frbr.pdf has the canonical report. http://www.oclc.org/research/p[…]eill/frbrddb2.ppt has an easily understood presentation. http://www.kaapeli.fi/~fla/frb[…]ject%20access.pdf has fun extensions. |
| 13:12 | hdl | much more complete. |
| 13:14 | kados | thd: you around? |
| 13:14 | thd | yes |
| 13:14 | kados | I just compiled a rule for finding Large Print using MARC |
| 13:15 | was wondering if you could check it | |
| 13:15 | Large print = | |
| 13:15 | ( | |
| 13:15 | ( ((LDR-07='a' or LDR-07='c' or LDR-07='m') and 008-23 = 'd') or | |
| 13:15 | ((LDR-06='c' or LDR-06='d' or LDR-06='i' or LDR-06='j') and 008-29='d') or | |
| 13:15 | ((LDR-07='s' or LDR-07='b') and 008-23='b') or | |
| 13:15 | (LDR-06='p' and 008-23='b') ) or | |
| 13:15 | ( ((LDR-06='e' or LDR-06='f') and 008-29='d') or | |
| 13:15 | ((LDR-06='g' or LDR-06='k' LDR-06='o' LDR-06='r') and 008-29='d') ) or | |
| 13:15 | ( ((LDR-07='s' or LDR-07='b') and 008-22='d') or | |
| 13:15 | 007-01='tb') | |
| 13:15 | the qualifier names should be fairly obvious | |
| 13:16 | this is why MARC must die :-) | |
| 13:16 | thd | kados: we should be storing things in a supplementary field so that we do not need to have those rules once he supplementary fields have been filled |
| 13:17 | s/he/the/ | |
| 13:18 | kados: I already see that you left out some possibilities | |
| 13:18 | kados | thd: like what? |
| 13:19 | thd | kados: there are textual field possibilities |
| 13:19 | kados | oh goody :-) |
| 13:20 | thd | kados: 020 $a; 300 $a; 500 $a, and maybe others |
| 13:21 | kados | thd: they have 'official' values? |
| 13:21 | thd | kados: if it were in 020 it would appear like 1234567890 (large print pbk.) or something like that |
| 13:21 | kados | thd: or just free text? |
| 13:22 | thd | kados: free text is tricky |
| 13:22 | kados | well ... are they consistant? |
| 13:22 | ie, are there valid and invalid values? | |
| 13:23 | thd | kados: nothing is very consistent about bibliographic records which makes them more fun than the boring consistent records of the world. |
| 13:23 | kados | :-) |
| 13:24 | thd | kados: so you should certainly be trying to match anything a lazy cataloguer might have used such as lrg. prt. or whatever |
| 13:24 | kados | thd: is there a list of those somewher? |
| 13:25 | thd: do they change from langauge to language? or are they consistant? | |
| 13:25 | thd: AACR2 have official abreviations? | |
| 13:25 | thd | kados: if you inspect every MARC record in existence then you will have the list |
| 13:25 | kados | hahah |
| 13:26 | owen: you may get a kick out of this: http://kados.org/marc_must_die_examples.txt | |
| 13:26 | thd | kados: I had a grand time just getting library of congress usage of abbreviations for hardcover and paperback complete in 020 |
| 13:26 | kados | owen: I'm compiling a 'most wanted' list for really bad design decisions in MARC :-) |
| 13:27 | owen | Good grief! |
| 13:27 | kados | yea ... show that to lauren and explain why Koha 2.4 isn't ready yet :-) |
| 13:27 | thd | kados: and LC was just one library with fairly god standards of consistency compared to some |
| 13:27 | kados | that represents at least 4 hours of digging |
| 13:28 | thd | s/god/good/ |
| 13:31 | kados: there is no specific rule for large print in my 1978 copy of AACR. | |
| 13:32 | s/AACR/AACR2/ | |
| 13:35 | kados | so what exactly _is_ 'large print' ... is it a format? |
| 13:35 | thd | kados: it is a type size |
| 13:37 | kados: there is no reason the books themselves have to be taller although the preference in printing them is too keep the pagination the same. | |
| 13:37 | kados | OCLC has it listed as a 'subtype' in the 'format' category |
| 13:38 | thd | kados: OCLC think as carefully as they ought to have when they designed that part of their search form. |
| 13:38 | kados: consider that they located some extra search possibilities they had indexed out of the way somewhere on the search form. | |
| 13:40 | kados | what extra search possibilities? |
| 13:41 | thd | kados: that interface was written primarily for librarians to use so they did not usually worry about finding more than one format or type size when they were looking for some place to do an ILL request or copy catalogue a book n hand. |
| 13:43 | kados: the extra possibilities are merely the less important search restrictions which they included with less thought to their organisation at the bottom of the form. | |
| 13:45 | kados: the top of the form is more carefully organised | |
| 13:46 | kados: have you seen that they are now providing direct access to Open WorldCat with a simple search box at htp://www.worldcat.org . | |
| 13:47 | kados | yes |
| 13:47 | thd | kados: has that only been a few weeks? |
| 13:48 | kados: there used to be a username and password dialogue box there for using the good search form that the FirstSearch interface has. | |
| 13:49 | kados | thd: it's only been about a week |
| 13:51 | thd | kados: screen scraping that may be better than using SOAP with Google for the same content. |
| 13:52 | kados | thd: that's what I'm going to do :-) |
| 13:54 | thd | kados: I thought NPL had lost many of its 000, 007, and 008 fields. Have you been filling them from other fields contained in the records? |
| 13:56 | kados | thd: yes |
| 13:56 | thd: they only lost 000s | |
| 13:56 | and a few 008s | |
| 13:57 | but it was pretty simple to reconstruct | |
| 13:58 | thd | kados: 008s were originally populated by script at many places form other information contained in the records when 008 was originally introduced. |
| 13:58 | s/places/big libraries/ | |
| 14:26 | kados: 022 $a and 024 $a should also be considered along with 020 $a for large print. | |
| 14:27 | kados: the problem with using 02X is that you may have more than one format recorded in a repeatable field which does not apply to your item. | |
| 14:29 | kados: your mappings look good but I am not awake enough to see very well. | |
| 14:31 | kados: I almost have a replacement for the wiki CSS that looks like the koha.org CSS. | |
| 22:51 | kados: are you still awake? | |
| 01:49 | hdl | hi |
| 01:55 | Strait | hi |
| 01:55 | dewey | hey, Strait |
| 01:55 | Strait | good morning :) |
| 02:02 | bugger | |
| 02:02 | z39.50 is broken :( | |
| 02:03 | The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/z3950/0 was not found on this server. | |
| 02:03 | that appears after the results have been displayed | |
| 02:04 | chris | ahh i think thats a bug in the npl templates |
| 02:04 | Strait | yep, it is |
| 02:04 | it works with default templates | |
| 02:04 | chris | i saw something about that, either on bugs.koha.org or the devel list |
| 02:05 | Strait | i tried checking bugs.koha.org already |
| 02:05 | chris | its fixed in the rel_2_2 branch of cvs |
| 02:05 | Strait | do you know how to fix it? |
| 02:06 | chris | its fixed in cvs .. so you could look at viewcvs on savannah that should tell you how it was fixed |
| 02:06 | whats the name of the tmpl? | |
| 02:06 | Strait | i think it's searchresult.tmpl |
| 02:07 | in z3950/ | |
| 02:08 | chris | http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org[…]_with_tag=rel_2_2 |
| 02:08 | hdl | Strait: yes it is. |
| 02:08 | chris | 1.2.2.2 |
| 02:08 | hdl | It returns 0 when no results found. |
| 02:08 | chris | is where the fix was applied |
| 02:08 | hdl | But not an HTML page. |
| 02:08 | hi chris | |
| 02:08 | chris | http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org[…].2.2.2&r1=1.2.2.1 |
| 02:08 | theres a diff | |
| 02:09 | hi hdl :) | |
| 02:09 | hdl | how is the next Cormack ? |
| 02:09 | chris | all good so far |
| 02:09 | hdl | great |
| 02:09 | chris | 22 weeks now .. over half way :) |
| 02:10 | Strait | great, thanks a million :) |
| 02:16 | works like a charm now :) | |
| 02:16 | i think i'll definitely have to upgrade to 1.2.2 at home | |
| 02:18 | chris | 1.2.2 ??? |
| 02:19 | Strait | version 1.2.2.2 |
| 02:19 | well that | |
| 02:19 | chris | ahh of that template |
| 02:19 | righto | |
| 02:21 | Strait | i think the guys at emilda have done a good job with z39.50 |
| 02:21 | it's really quite elegant | |
| 02:21 | chris | yeah the next versions of koha handle z3950 much better |
| 02:21 | Strait | http://demo.emilda.org/ |
| 02:22 | chris | now there is a perl interface to zebra (what emilda uses) |
| 02:22 | Strait | although featurewise emilda is nowhere near koha of course ;) |
| 02:22 | chris | its possible for us to use it also |
| 02:23 | Strait | yep |
| 02:24 | it think the whole consept of adding books in emilda is worth checking out | |
| 02:24 | i think | |
| 02:24 | (it's so hard to write english :D) | |
| 02:24 | chris | :) |
| 02:25 | its all quite different for koha 3.0 | |
| 02:28 | Strait | koha 3.0 is available through cvs? |
| 02:28 | chris | well it wont work |
| 02:28 | but yep :) | |
| 02:28 | Strait | ah, ok |
| 02:54 | hmm, i think we're gonna need a character conversion for the z3950 | |
| 02:54 | from iso-8859-1 to utf-8 | |
| 02:54 | to be able to import voyager records | |
| 02:55 | (finnish national library uses a voyager system) | |
| 02:55 | (for the time being ;)) | |
| 03:00 | chris | yep |
| 03:01 | its probably marc8 | |
| 03:01 | theres been tons of work done on conversion in the dev_week branch of cvs | |
| 03:01 | and lots on the wiki | |
| 03:01 | kados, paul and tumer know much more about it than me | |
| 03:02 | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ncodingscratchpad | |
| 04:42 | mohamedimran82 | hello i have a problem with koha reservation |
| 04:52 | anybody on this list willing to spare time for errors in koha reservation | |
| 05:03 | chris | sorry mohamed, its friday night here so I wasnt watching my computer |
| 05:03 | whats the problem? | |
| 05:03 | dewey | the problem is if there is no data in the sort field zebra throws and error and does not even return the unsorted results |
| 05:04 | chris | dewey: forget the problem |
| 05:04 | dewey | chris: I forgot problem |
| 05:05 | mohamedimran82 | thnk u very much but what about the reservation problem |
| 05:05 | i am able to issue a book to a person inspite of somebody else already reserving it ! | |
| 05:06 | that too with out any warning | |
| 05:06 | chris | hmmm i havent seen that before |
| 05:06 | what version of koha, and what operating system? | |
| 05:07 | mohamedimran82 | koha 2.2.5 FC3 |
| 05:08 | chris | weird, i havent seen that problem before .. what templates? |
| 05:08 | mohamedimran82 | default |
| 05:08 | chris | no idea sorry |
| 05:09 | mohamedimran82 | but all my reserves r logged in reservation pending list |
| 05:09 | never mind . but what about the reports | |
| 05:09 | chris | you should get a warning, that says its on a reserve, and do you what to issue it anyway |
| 05:09 | thats what happens for me | |
| 05:10 | what report? | |
| 05:11 | mohamedimran82 | all my reports |
| 05:12 | for ex if i try to see borrower stats it throws up a message in error log | |
| 05:12 | [Fri Aug 18 15:49:03 2006] [error] [client 192.168.1.2] DBD::mysql::st fetchrow failed: fetch() without execute() at /usr/local/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/reports/borrowers_stats.pl line 357., referer: http://192.168.1.7:8001/cgi-bi[…]orrowers_stats.pl | |
| 05:12 | chris | and you choose so options? |
| 05:13 | chose some options even | |
| 05:14 | for eg | |
| 05:14 | click row for category | |
| 05:14 | and column for location | |
| 05:14 | then you should get some results | |
| 05:16 | does that work? | |
| 05:17 | mohamedimran82 | yeah it worked for borrowers. thnx |
| 05:17 | but why is there problems with wild cards | |
| 05:17 | chris | cool, you need to choose a column or a row |
| 05:17 | for all the reports | |
| 05:18 | you dont have to choose any values, just what you want as the column or the row | |
| 05:18 | otherwise it doesnt know how to build the table | |
| 05:19 | mohamedimran82 | ya it worked for a few reports. |
| 05:20 | by the way why dont u complete the documentation on the report section on kohadocs | |
| 05:20 | its empty | |
| 05:20 | chris | cos i dont have time :) |
| 05:21 | if anyone wants to write it, we'd be happy | |
| 05:22 | mohamedimran82 | one more query |
| 05:22 | i have managed to authenticate my users from my college LDAP | |
| 05:23 | now the catch. how to map those fields into koha db | |
| 05:23 | when a ldap user logs in, all his personal details in opac are empty | |
| 05:24 | if he is changing that, that a mail is sent to the admin to reflect that on the DB | |
| 05:24 | why this redundant stuff | |
| 05:24 | can we not pull up all the user details from the ldap and fill the same for each authenticated user | |
| 05:25 | chris | yes |
| 05:25 | thats an option in the ldap module | |
| 05:25 | mohamedimran82 | is it inside LOCAL & /LOCAL |
| 05:26 | chris | i didnt write the Auth_with_ldap.pm module |
| 05:26 | but ill go look | |
| 05:28 | yep it is | |
| 05:28 | mohamedimran82 | why this is necessary is that when we take reports we see lots of NULL fields because values are not pulled up from LDAP |
| 05:28 | chris | yes you will need to edit it |
| 05:29 | from my %borrower; | |
| 05:29 | on | |
| 05:29 | to match you LDAP structure | |
| 05:36 | mohamedimran82 | i am working on it |
| 05:40 | my ldap structure says that the display name is gecos | |
| 05:41 | $borrower{firstname} = $memberhash{gecos}; # MANDATORY FIELD | |
| 05:41 | i did this. Is this right? | |
| 05:41 | chris | i dont know sorry |
| 05:42 | i havent done any work at all on LDAP and Koha | |
| 05:43 | mohamedimran82 | anyways thnx a ton for ur comments on reports |
| 05:44 | chris | no problem |
| 05:44 | ok, bedtime for me | |
| 05:44 | good luck :) | |
| 05:44 | mohamedimran82 | sweet dreams |
| 08:04 | hdl | toins: bonjour |
| 08:04 | toins | salut hdl |
| 08:05 | hdl, comment ca va ? | |
| 09:23 | thd | kados: are you there? |
| 09:23 | kados | thd: yes |
| 09:24 | thd | kados: I just you a revised adaptation of the koha.org CSS for the wiki. |
| 09:25 | kados: I am anxious to have a better CSS for the wiki so that I can have confidence in the presentation of wiki content. | |
| 09:27 | kados | ok, I'll try to take care of that asap |
| 09:29 | thd | kados: i will be much happier about creating wiki content if is more readable and also looks better. |
| 09:54 | owen | Hi rychi |
| 09:55 | rychi | hi owen. I was just looking for you. |
| 09:55 | I have a question re: npl templates | |
| 09:55 | owen | Shoot |
| 09:55 | rychi | the title and other links on opac-searchresults is url-encoded. |
| 09:56 | this gives me %20's in my searchresults. | |
| 09:56 | how should this work? | |
| 09:56 | owen | Are you looking at the latest CVS? |
| 09:56 | rychi | yes |
| 09:57 | rel_2_2 | |
| 09:57 | owen | There was recently a change in the default template in that regard, which I copied over |
| 09:57 | I'll check to see what the explanation was | |
| 10:00 | thd: regarding the wiki, did you try applying a user stylesheet, or turning CSS off? | |
| 10:01 | thd | owen: yes, I tested with a user stylesheet |
| 10:03 | owen: I could not see what I was doing earlier well because I was not using the best menu option for the Firefox Web Developer plugin. | |
| 10:05 | owen | rychi: you're talking about the ESCAPE="URL" |
| 10:05 | ? | |
| 10:05 | thd | owen: certainly a user stylesheet would fix the wiki for me, however, I want to fix the wiki for anyone I would direct to it. |
| 10:06 | rychi | owen, right. |
| 10:06 | owen | thd: I think most people are fine with it |
| 10:06 | Yeah, rychi, it's the same in the default template. What's the problem it's causing for you? | |
| 10:06 | thd | owen: I realise that but that is most people do not put much content into it. |
| 10:07 | rychi | owen: i think the escape="url" should be in the <a> tag, but not in the link text? |
| 10:07 | owen: the default templates work for me. | |
| 10:07 | thd | owen: if you start to put some significant content into the wiki, the problems become evident. |
| 10:08 | owen: existing content is simple outlines which are undemanding of the CSS. | |
| 10:10 | rychi | owen: ah, I see in the default tmpl, the escape param is only in the <a> tag. |
| 10:11 | thd | owen: If you try adding paragraphs, bibliographies with hyperlinks, HTML content, etc. to wiki content you should see problems for readability and poor appearance. |
| 10:11 | owen | I see, rychi. I'll change it. |
← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index