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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 16:07 | chris | morning |
| 16:47 | rach | morning |
| 17:07 | chris | hi rach, hows things? |
| 17:22 | rach | good thanks |
| 17:22 | excellent sleepy baby last nite, got through till 7am | |
| 22:52 | chris | anyone about? |
| 02:31 | osmoze | hello |
| 08:50 | owen | Good morning dewey |
| 09:01 | dewey: are you not talking to me? | |
| 09:01 | dewey | owen: i haven't a clue |
| 09:38 | kados | owen: just posted a note on the npl tech staff about searching |
| 09:38 | owen: please check to make sure it's not too tech-heavy :-) | |
| 09:50 | owen | Sounds good to me. It just leaves the question hanging: why don't we have authority records and how do we get them? |
| 09:50 | kados | yea |
| 09:50 | why don't we have them: because they are expensive | |
| 09:51 | how do we get them: http://www.loc.gov/cds/ | |
| 09:51 | http://www.loc.gov/cds/contact.html | |
| 09:52 | the second link there is the 'placing an order' link :-) | |
| 09:52 | owen | Not exactly Amazon.com is it? |
| 09:52 | kados | heh |
| 09:52 | yea, somewhere around there is a list of the prices | |
| 09:54 | last time I checked, it was something like $20K for author and subject authorities | |
| 09:54 | it's subscription-based, so that'd be an annual cost | |
| 09:54 | though thd tells me there are cheaper options | |
| 09:55 | owen: just so you know, ID finished the CCL stuff, but when I tried to install it it seg faulted ... (that was this morning) | |
| 09:55 | so I'm waiting to hear from them on what I need to do to run it | |
| 09:56 | (probably some undeclared dependency or something | |
| 09:56 | I think we're still on track for Monday | |
| 09:56 | owen | $20K annually is ridiculously high for a library our size |
| 09:56 | kados | yep |
| 09:56 | but it might be possible if we could get 4 or 5 libraries together | |
| 09:57 | owen | Someone should file an anti-trust lawsuit |
| 09:57 | kados | to spread out the expense |
| 09:57 | that would be interesting | |
| 09:57 | I think the LOC has a directive to recover expenses for their 'products' | |
| 09:59 | hmmm, can't find them :( | |
| 09:59 | ha! | |
| 09:59 | here we go: | |
| 09:59 | I'm the release manager for the Koha project, an open-source library | |
| 09:59 | automation system. I was wondering whether you could point me in the | |
| 09:59 | direction of any public domain database that contains cataloging | |
| 09:59 | data that would be useful in the context of a cataloging program's | |
| 09:59 | 'help' feature. Specifically, descriptions of tags and subfields in | |
| 09:59 | MARC, style rules (AACR2, etc.). If possible, I'd like to wrap any | |
| 10:00 | such public domain text into Koha to improve the references within | |
| 10:00 | its interface. Any help you can provide is most appreciated. | |
| 10:00 | here's the response: | |
| 10:00 | -- | |
| 10:00 | It's worth noting that none of the information you are looking for is open | |
| 10:00 | +source, per se. Some of it is available largely without restrictions via the | |
| 10:00 | +web, but all of it is copyrighted and comes with some at least minimal | |
| 10:00 | +acknowledgement requirements. | |
| 10:00 | A condensed version of the MARC documentation is available at < | |
| 10:00 | +http://www.loc.gov/marc/ >. AACR2 is copyrighted by the American Library | |
| 10:00 | +Association and their two co-publishers and is not available anywhere open | |
| 10:00 | +source. The only place it is available electronically is in Cataloger's | |
| 10:00 | +Desktop, which as you no doubt know is a subscription publication. Additional | |
| 10:00 | +information about AACR2 is available at <http://www.aacr2.org>. Additional | |
| 10:00 | +information about Cataloger's Desktop is available at | |
| 10:00 | +<http://www.loc.gov/cds/desktop/>. | |
| 10:00 | which was confusing to me | |
| 10:01 | so then I wrote: | |
| 10:01 | Thanks for the speedy reply. I've considered purchasing a subscription | |
| 10:01 | for Cataloger's Desktop for LibLime's research staff -- when I look | |
| 10:01 | at the terms of use it seems to be pretty restricted as far as using | |
| 10:01 | the electronic text for anything other than reference within the | |
| 10:01 | program (ie, it doesn't look like they would want me to bulk export | |
| 10:01 | the AACR2 and put it into Koha). I do remember vaguely that material | |
| 10:01 | produced by LOC is in fact public domain and use of it in the manner | |
| 10:01 | I've described would be legal, but I'm not a lawyer :-). I'm wondering | |
| 10:01 | whether you would be the one to talk to about this. | |
| 10:01 | and I got the response: | |
| 10:01 | -- | |
| 10:01 | Thanks very much. A common misconception is that Library of Congress data is | |
| 10:01 | +in the public domain. It is not. It is copyrighted, but that affords LC no | |
| 10:01 | +real protection within the United States. Without the contractual protections | |
| 10:01 | +we would not be able to keep the cost of the product as low as we do. (And I | |
| 10:01 | +should point out that we do what we do not with taxpayer money, but rather with | |
| 10:01 | +revenue we generate from the sale of products and services to libraries | |
| 10:01 | +worldwide.) And of course, the American Library Association is VERY emphatic | |
| 10:01 | +about receiving substantial royalties for use of their data. | |
| 10:02 | so that thread doesn't directly apply to authorities | |
| 10:02 | but it does indicate that at least some of what LOC does isn't sponsored by taxpayer monies | |
| 10:02 | maybe authorities are part of that | |
| 10:04 | owen | By the way, did you ever find anything out about the bugs in addbiblio? |
| 10:04 | that should be a blocker for the next release | |
| 10:05 | kados | that's on my todo for today |
| 10:45 | so ... | |
| 10:45 | as of right now | |
| 10:45 | rel_2_2, using the npl templates | |
| 10:46 | and marc21 | |
| 10:46 | won't save records | |
| 10:46 | you add a record and it simply vanishes | |
| 10:46 | ARRRRGGGG! | |
| 10:48 | same thing with default | |
| 10:48 | the valies in the record simply vanish | |
| 10:50 | it's times like this when I wonder if open source is the right choice :-) | |
| 10:50 | so the question is, how many hours will it take me to figure it out? | |
| 10:59 | wow | |
| 10:59 | paul just added a bunch of stuff to MARChtml2xml | |
| 10:59 | that seems to be the problem | |
| 10:59 | mine has: | |
| 10:59 | sub MARChtml2xml { | |
| 10:59 | my ($tags,$subfields,$values,$indicator,$ind_tag) = @_; | |
| 11:00 | pau's has: | |
| 11:00 | sub MARChtml2xml { | |
| 11:00 | my ($tags,$subfields,$values,$firstsubfields,$indicator,$ind_tag) = @_; | |
| 11:00 | so what the heck is 'firstsubfields'? | |
| 11:01 | rfirstsubfields : a reference to a list, each entry containing 0 or 1. 0 means that the corresponding subfield it NOT the 1st of the tag, 1 meaning it is. | |
| 11:01 | that's a hack if I've ever seen one | |
| 11:05 | it looks to me like paul committed this 'firstsubfield' thing into the script | |
| 11:05 | but not into the template :( | |
| 11:05 | owen: do you see any template related commits related to 'firstsubfield'? | |
| 11:06 | here are some places: | |
| 11:06 | grep -R firstsubfield * | |
| 11:06 | default/en/acqui.simple/addbiblio.tmpl: <input type="hidden" name="firstsubfield" value="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="firstsubfield" -->" size="2" maxlength="1"/>npl/en/acqui.simple/addbiblio.tmpl: <input type="hidden" name="firstsubfield" value="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="firstsubfield" -->" size="2" maxlength="1" /> | |
| 11:06 | so they are in the templates | |
| 11:06 | but the feature is broken in the script | |
| 11:08 | when cloning a tag, there was a problem to detect the tag change when rebuilding the XML/MARC record : | |
| 11:08 | the test was done on an empty field. | |
| 11:08 | with the new CloneTag sub, this empty field was quite tricky to create on the fly. | |
| 11:08 | so i've added on each subfield a <input name="firstsubfield"> saying wether the subfield is the 1st or not. | |
| 11:08 | Thus, when a tag is cloned, it is cloned properly. | |
| 11:08 | HTML2marc and well as HTML2xml have been modified, but PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK my work | |
| 11:19 | ok ... | |
| 11:19 | I think I've traced the root of the problem | |
| 11:19 | testing now | |
| 11:19 | owen: what's up with this display: http://opac.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/[…]ail.pl?bib=141126 | |
| 11:20 | owen: is that due to the record or is there some kind of weirdness in the template? | |
| 11:21 | also it looks like the 'economical' vs 'standard' distinction when viewing MARC was either lost in the intranet, or it was never committed | |
| 11:21 | Anson | aloha |
| 11:21 | kados | hey Anson |
| 11:21 | Anson | Hi Kados :) |
| 11:21 | I'm working on a centos install of koha | |
| 11:21 | getting stuck at the yaz install | |
| 11:22 | libcrypto.so.5 is needed by libyaz-2.1.20-1.i386 | |
| 11:22 | libexslt.so.0 is needed by libyaz-2.1.20-1.i386 | |
| 11:22 | libssl.so.5 is needed by libyaz-2.1.20-1.i386 | |
| 11:22 | libwrap.so.0 is needed by libyaz-2.1.20-1.i386 | |
| 11:22 | libxslt.so.1 is needed by libyaz-2.1.20-1.i386 | |
| 11:23 | probably misusing the rpm commands, or need to add repositories, any suggestions? | |
| 11:26 | kados | hmmm |
| 11:27 | what about: | |
| 11:27 | yum install yaz | |
| 11:27 | (does centos use yum yet?) | |
| 11:27 | honestly, unless you're deeply tied to using centos, I'd recomment using debian | |
| 11:27 | debian sarge is what index data releases are based on | |
| 11:28 | so you can have the latest stable stuff running in a package management system | |
| 11:28 | it's also what most of the 'supported' koha libraries use | |
| 11:28 | Anson | ok |
| 11:29 | kados | Anson: plus, I've written up such a nice install for debian :-) |
| 11:29 | Anson | well charting some new turf' |
| 11:29 | kados | Anson: http://www.kohadocs.org/Instal[…]Debian_sarge.html |
| 11:30 | Anson | wish i had an extra box to put debian on :) |
| 11:30 | kados | i've played around with quite a few distros |
| 11:30 | Anson | that's ok, diggin through the data tonite + manana should turn in to a library soon enough :) |
| 11:30 | kados | I've got production systems running fedora, RHEL, gentoo, debian, ubuntu, etc. |
| 11:31 | and what I've found is | |
| 11:31 | whatever app you're running is best run in the same environment as the developers who are working on that app | |
| 11:31 | it saves you hours and hours of headaches | |
| 11:32 | for koha and yaz that environment is mostly debian | |
| 11:32 | not to say that all the developers use debian | |
| 11:32 | but most of us do | |
| 11:32 | and the index data guys (who maintain yaz) definitely do | |
| 11:32 | owen | kados: not sure on first glance what's going on with that marcdetail page |
| 11:32 | kados | owen: could it have something to do wtih pauls' new 'one tab' change? |
| 11:33 | owen: I'll switch to default so we can take a look | |
| 11:33 | owen | Oh, I know--their custom stylesheet needs to be updated |
| 11:33 | kados | ahh |
| 11:33 | ok, I'll let you do that then ;-) | |
| 11:33 | Anson | Kados: that makes good sense... which version of debian installs most readily? |
| 11:33 | kados | owen: or let me know what needs changed |
| 11:34 | Anson: I'd stick with the latest 'stable' which is 'sarge' | |
| 11:34 | Anson: do a 'netinst' | |
| 11:34 | Anson: or use a 'business card install' off the network | |
| 11:34 | Anson: you basically install a minimal system | |
| 11:34 | Anson: some of this is covered in my installation document | |
| 11:34 | Anson: it's worth a read | |
| 11:35 | Anson | I've read most of it, seems like RHEL is missing a lot of the dependencies.... |
| 11:35 | kados | yep |
| 11:35 | you can find them | |
| 11:35 | but it's a pain | |
| 11:35 | Anson | :) |
| 11:35 | yep | |
| 11:36 | kados | you could be up and running on a sarge system in a day |
| 11:36 | rather than spend a week getting RHEL running :-) | |
| 11:36 | of course ... | |
| 11:36 | the other alternative is to purchase support from one of the koha vendors :-) | |
| 11:36 | Anson | it wouldn't even take that long, however this could be my miniscule contribution to a very cool project :) |
| 11:36 | kados | yea, true that |
| 11:37 | Anson | yup - talked to liblime yesterday, very cool crew |
| 11:37 | kados | that was me :-) |
| 11:37 | Anson | :) |
| 11:37 | excellent | |
| 11:38 | whatta trip | |
| 11:39 | well I think I'm gonna work on finding the rpm servers for the dependencies, it'll be worth it if the documentation gets done and put in the wiki | |
| 11:39 | besides, i don't really have an extra dev box sitting around right now... | |
| 11:40 | rock on, ttyl8r :) |
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