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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:00 | timing | thus making no unified system school A could have barcode A as harry potter and school b have barcode A as huckaberry finn |
| 11:00 | thd | timing: Corrected from earlier for EAN: 2 or 3 character country country code, manufacturer code plus product id, and check digit. |
| 11:01 | indradg | timing, what we have done is like this [XX][XXX][XXXX][X][XXXX] => [USERTYPE][PROGRAM_CODE][YEARCODE][SEXCODE][SERIAL_ID] |
| 11:01 | thd, yes | |
| 11:01 | timing | so if we move to a single system this will be messed up right |
| 11:01 | thd | indrag: what software do you use to generate your codes? |
| 11:02 | timing: What do you mean by a single system? | |
| 11:02 | indradg | thd, OpenOffice Calc and a bit of perl :) |
| 11:02 | timing | koha single database |
| 11:02 | indradg | thd, printing the actual user cards handled through Glabels |
| 11:03 | thd | timing: Only one library uses the Koha barcode generator currently. Others buy preprinted labels which are much easier. |
| 11:04 | indradg | brb |
| 11:04 | thd | indrag what is the advantage of having the code segmented if the values that correspond to the code are in the database? |
| 11:07 | timing: How you use barcodes is entirely up to you and should not affect whether you have one Koha database for the whole system or not. The interface warns you if you attempt to create a duplicate code. | |
| 11:08 | timing | ok so my problem with haveing serveral different books with the same barcode is a problem if I move them to a single database |
| 11:08 | thd | kados: do you plan to upgrade koha.liblime.com to 2.2.4 today? |
| 11:10 | kados: A very slight change is needed in the NPL templates. | |
| 11:11 | paul: are you still here? | |
| 11:11 | paul | not far, thd ;-) |
| 11:12 | thd | paul: did you understand what I was trying to as about whether you had active users of the itemcallnumber preference? |
| 11:14 | osmoze | bye all |
| 11:15 | thd | s/as/ask/ |
| 11:16 | owen | thd: what change are you talking about? |
| 11:16 | thd | paul: does my question bore you or confuse you? |
| 11:17 | owen: I did not notice that you were logged in. | |
| 11:18 | owen: for subject subdivision searches the NPL templates are broken and thanks to paul they could almost work now. | |
| 11:18 | owen | You're referring to an example ont he Liblime site? |
| 11:22 | thd | owen: the LibLime demo may not even have records with subdivisions for all I know. Subject searches for the opac/detail.tmpl need operator=contains instead of operator=start for the subject links to work correctly. |
| 11:24 | owen: also the subject subdivision subfields have to be linked as see also indexed values in the biblio frameworks. | |
| 11:31 | owen: subject subdivisions are for example: 650 #0$a Historic buildings$zIllinois$zChicago$v Pictorial works. | |
| 11:31 | owen | Yes, I understand that part |
| 11:31 | thd | owen: what was not understood? |
| 11:32 | owen | "subfields have to be linked as see also indexed values in the biblio frameworks" |
| 11:33 | timing | paul or kados:I need a list of public schools in the USA that are using Koha |
| 11:33 | If I could please and thank you | |
| 11:34 | thd | timing: there used to be a map on koha.org but it has not been replaced since the new website update |
| 11:36 | paul | timing : let's have a look at www.koha.org/wiki, KohaUsers |
| 11:40 | thd | owen: For example in the biblio framework for 650 $a in the search also text box you would put '650b','650c','650d','650e','650v','650x','650y','650z' |
| 11:46 | paul: the old Koha map often had URLs to the OPACs more than the wiki seems to have. Do you recall that? | |
| 11:51 | owen: is my meaning clear now? | |
| 11:51 | owen | I'm updating the link to see whether the behavior changes |
| 11:55 | thd | paul: thank you for mostly fixing the first thing that most librarians that I know would identify as a reason to reject Koha without looking further. |
| 11:57 | paul: I was very pleasantly surprised to see that you had included a basic functionality for subject subfield links in 2.2.4 | |
| 11:58 | owen: what problem is that? | |
| 11:59 | owen: how do I catch that problem or avoid it? | |
| 12:02 | owen | When I open a tag for subfield-editing and save my changes, instead of saving my changes to the old subfields it creates a new, duplicate list of subfields with my changed values. |
| 12:02 | It happens in both the default and NPL templates | |
| 12:03 | thd | owen: why don't I have that problem? |
| 12:03 | owen | I don't know. |
| 12:03 | thd | owen: what version is installed now? |
| 12:04 | owen | Our test machine has a CVS version from just before the latest release. |
| 12:05 | thd | owen: was the CVS version tied to head, 2.2.1, or to 2.2.4? |
| 12:06 | owen | But we've had this problem for months |
| 12:06 | We can't safely use biblio frameworks on our production machine because of this problem | |
| 12:07 | thd | owen: Is the problem a legacy problem from an old version that needs a complete reinstall? |
| 12:08 | owen: I have not seen this problem from 2.2.2 on and I have certainly done enough to find it if it was readily found. | |
| 12:10 | owen | There's only two branches of cvs: rel_2_2 (which led to 2.2.4) and HEAD which leads to 3.0 |
| 12:10 | The test machine I'm referring to has rel_2_2 | |
| 12:11 | thd | owen: dump the data and do a fresh install on the test system. Remove framework data from the dump and then reinsert the data. |
| 12:16 | owen: If your experience matches mine you should have no problem after there is no strange framework data in your system, unless I have just been very lucky. | |
| 12:17 | owen: you would have to reconfigure your framework manually but I expect your problem would vanish. | |
| 12:18 | owen: had you asked paul about this problem before? | |
| 12:18 | owen | Yes, but since he can't duplicate the problem there isn't much he can do |
| 12:19 | thd | owen: Did he never know of anyone else with that problem? |
| 12:19 | owen | No |
| 12:20 | thd | owen: And no one tried hacking the framework before it appeared? |
| 12:20 | owen | I don't know at what point the problem started, or what work had been done on the framework beforehand |
| 12:22 | thd | owen: you have to let the gremlins have their own Koha to play with so they do not bother yours :) |
| 12:25 | owen: Framework problems could be systematically corrupting your data. They almost certainly are but you have that nice external store of MARC information with the leader, 008, and everything else that Koha erased for you with an incomplete framework. | |
| 12:28 | owen: The joy of seeing subject subdivisions working at all in Koha worth anything that you have to do to see that. | |
| 12:33 | owen: Has the LibLime demo had the same framework problem as you have had at NPL? | |
| 12:36 | indradg: are you about? | |
| 12:37 | owen | thd: I don't know about Liblime's installation |
| 12:38 | indradg | thd, yep |
| 12:39 | thd | indradg: what practical advantage do structured barcodes have for you. |
| 12:39 | ? | |
| 12:39 | indradg | thd, ok explaining |
| 12:40 | thd, u see we started with automating the Univ's central library | |
| 12:40 | now that the system is working people want the system to slowly replicated to the 76 colleges under it | |
| 12:41 | these colleges have their own libraries... the students studying there access their local library | |
| 12:41 | but "technically" the students in these colleges can also use the Univ library | |
| 12:42 | the central database as u mentioned is present only at the university | |
| 12:42 | the colleges are not electronically networked with the university yet | |
| 12:43 | if it was only that the students from the colleges have to be given access to the university library, we wouldn't have this prob | |
| 12:44 | but to replicate the Koha-based setup across the colleges as well which are not networked to the university presents problem without the classification schema | |
| 12:45 | plus a lot of the University's functions (non-library) but tied to library nonetheless aren't yet computerised... old paper processes | |
| 12:45 | so to migrate the system without a total failure we had to go for the compromise solution | |
| 12:46 | thd, hope that clarifies :) | |
| 12:46 | thd | indradg: Is this merely to ensure that barcodes are not reused and are unique throughout a system that is not networked together yet? If it were networked to gether then the central system could enforce uniqueness? |
| 12:47 | indradg | thd, yes... if the entire system was networked we wouldn't have to perform this circus act |
| 12:48 | thd | indradg: is the power grid reliable for that eventuality? |
| 12:49 | indradg | thd, basically blocks of serial ids are reserved for the colleges... they get to play with only their own blocks |
| 12:51 | thd, power grid is reliable enough... what is proving tougher is migrating librarians from CDS / ISIS based or proprietary system (and even more the sysadmins to migrate to Linux) | |
| 12:51 | thd | indradg: is 76 colleges an unusually high number for a single university in India? |
| 12:52 | indradg | thd, not really... there are universities with higher number still |
| 12:52 | the Univ I'm engaged with is the umbrella university for all engineering and technology colleges in my state (West Bengal) | |
| 12:53 | thd, higher education used to be govt funded... now in the last 10 years things are all moving to the private sector ... or euphemisically called as public-private sector ;) | |
| 12:56 | thd | indradg: So many colleges elsewhere that I know of would have formed their own autonomous existence free from any university. |
| 12:59 | indradg | thd, technically the colleges here have that freedom too... and it doesn't matter in the private sector jobs... employment opportunities / higher educational (post-graduate, PhD programs and such) get restricted unless the students have the stamp of one of the recognised universities |
| 13:00 | thd | indradg: I expected that it was an accreditation issue. |
| 13:00 | indradg | thd, the best academic, technical, management education institutions in india are all in the public sector and funded by the govt... the IITs, the IIMs et al |
| 13:02 | owen | Hi jdtysko |
| 13:02 | indradg | the competition there is extremely tough -- entry is like 1:10000 for the IITs... we have a huge population ;-) |
| 13:02 | jdtysko | hey |
| 13:04 | thd | indradg: Is their not a set of examinations administered by select universities that anyone can take wherever his college is located? |
| 13:04 | s/their/there/ | |
| 13:04 | indradg | thd, yes... the entry into the IITs and IIMs are all through common entrance test conducted all-over the country |
| 13:05 | thd | indradg: I meant sitting examinations for degree qualification. |
| 13:07 | jdtysko: have you solved fines.pl? | |
| 13:07 | indradg | thd, no... the student and his collges has to be accreditated to the University... the exam is common to all the colleges under one particular university |
| 13:08 | thd, the degree exams and certificates are directly managed by the universities here.. the colleges have little role in that | |
| 13:12 | jdtysko | thd: fines.pl? what is that? |
| 13:12 | thd | indradg: there once was a time when the university leaving exams for most commonwealth countries were set by the University of London examination board wherever the local university or college happened to be located. I suppose that was dispensed with in India after independence. |
| 13:13 | jdtysko: sorry, I guess I have you confused with someone else. | |
| 13:14 | jdtysko | thd: oh okay |
| 13:32 | thd | timing: EAN-13: http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/upccode.html and http://www.barcodeisland.com/ean13.phtml . EAN-14 is an extension. |
| 13:46 | indradg | thd, yes |
| 13:53 | owen | jdtysko: are you John Tysko from SEORF? |
| 13:54 | jdtysko | owen: no i am his son |
| 13:54 | owen | Oh, cool. |
| 13:54 | Nice to meet you. I'm Owen Leonard from the Nelsonville Library. | |
| 13:55 | jdtysko | i'm working on the cataloging project for the library |
| 13:55 | oh, so you're the web adn interface designer | |
| 13:56 | owen | Yes |
| 13:57 | jdtysko | well, i have to go to class. my group will be on at 4 though. bye |
| 16:10 | rach | morning |
| 16:11 | owen | Hi rach |
| 16:11 | rach | hi owen, long time no chat :-) |
| 16:12 | owen | It's been quiet around here in general |
| 16:12 | rach | must all be working hard |
| 16:13 | thd | rach: have you been reclaiming the OPAC default template for non-MARC Koha? |
| 16:14 | rach | I don't believe so |
| 16:14 | we did new templates | |
| 16:14 | for the libraries we're working on at the moment | |
| 16:15 | and I think that we would have left in the "if marc show this" | |
| 16:15 | type code | |
| 16:15 | thd | rach: Someone has modified the OPAC default templates so that they do not support MARC features or link to them. I noticed with 2.2.4. |
| 16:16 | owen | the OPAC default templates haven't been updated in ages |
| 16:16 | So they never did support MARC features | |
| 16:16 | Paul's CSS templates should be renamed 'default' and the current default should be removed. | |
| 16:16 | rach | there's your answer |
| 16:17 | thd | owen: they at least had links to MARC, ISBD, etc. |
| 16:17 | rach | We have been reporting bugs when we find them so that owen & paul could update their templates if needed |
| 16:19 | owen | The last update to /opac-tmpl/default/en/opac-detail.tmpl was over a year ago |
| 16:19 | rach | the new templates we did were sort of a mix of the default and npl ones I think |
| 16:19 | sounds like a bug you should report thd | |
| 16:19 | thd | rach: The OPAC default templates just look now as if they had been adjusted for non-MARC. The most curious thing is the subject linking does not appear in them at all. |
| 16:21 | rach: It really seems to be a bug by design. They do look fairly nice. I like their colour scheme better. | |
| 16:22 | owen | thd: I say again, the default opac templates haven't been updated in ages. They were superceded by Paul's css templates. |
| 16:23 | No one is supporting them anymore. | |
| 16:23 | rach | Paul said he'd changed the colours |
| 16:23 | didn't he? | |
| 16:23 | owen | He changed the colors of his css templates slightly |
| 16:24 | rach | they did have a bug that even if you chose "non marc" all the marc stuff still showed up, so he may have changed that after we pointed it out |
| 16:25 | thd | owen: I never used the CSS templates until yesterday. Some of the translation files only support default for the OPAC. |
| 16:25 | rach | my guys reckon it wasn't them :-) |
| 16:25 | thd | rach: now they have the opposite bug :) |
| 16:27 | owen | The last update to files in /opac-tmpl/default/en/ was 17 Aug 2004. |
| 16:28 | thd, are you sure those are the templates you've been using? | |
| 16:28 | rach | do you meant the css templates? |
| 16:30 | thd | rach: I know the difference. the CSS templates are fine except for the bug where the MARC view obscures the navigation links but that is not new. |
| 16:31 | rach | ah well just checking, sounds like one for bugzilla |
| 16:33 | thd | rach: I had just expected that you would tell me that you had rewritten them to correct some bug that prevented non-MARC from working. |
| 16:33 | rach | nah we're too scared of breaking the MARC stuff :-) |
| 16:33 | we made new ones | |
| 16:33 | owen | Are you going to commit them rach? |
| 16:34 | rach | well we were wanting much simpler ones |
| 16:34 | yep they are being committed for v3 I believe | |
| 16:34 | those are the v plain black and white jobs | |
| 16:36 | thd | rach: will those be the only ones where full acquisitions works, that is will full acquisitions work in MARC Koha or will it need non-MARC templates? |
| 16:37 | rach | hmm that is a v good question |
| 16:38 | thd | rach: I have a demonstration on Friday :) |
| 16:39 | rach: Of course, I could just pretend, and maybe she does not care about full acquisitions :) | |
| 16:40 | rach | they go live in a non-marc environment on Monday and I suspect we won't have tested with Marc on |
| 16:40 | but by the time v 3 comes out I would hope that they would work in both marc & non marc | |
| 16:42 | I would hope that once we have our ones in production, there will be a bit of a "regroup" on what the coding differences are between the templates | |
| 16:43 | and the functionality should be able to be resynced - we're making changes to just one set of templates because of course | |
| 16:43 | we don't want to change all the templates until we've got one set right | |
| 16:44 | owen would that be your take on things as well? | |
| 16:44 | thd | rach: Well that could be a suitable time if 3.0 is still somewhat on schedule. |
| 16:45 | owen | But I doubt that 3.0 is going to be on schedule. |
| 16:46 | thd | owen: what happened to you blind faith |
| 16:46 | owen | :) |
| 16:46 | It got glasses | |
| 16:47 | thd | rach: has any significant Koha release been on schedule since version 1.0 ? |
| 16:47 | rach | I'm not sure what would need to be done to make full acquisitions work with Marc on - well I have some idea, and I'd have thought that "not much" should be the answer |
| 16:47 | kados | hey jdtysko ... how's the meeting going? |
| 16:48 | owen | Whaddaya know, kados is alive! |
| 16:48 | jdtysko | well, well, we're finally all here and we have a few questions |
| 16:48 | thd | rach: It is only the templates that might be different which is why I asked about them. |
| 16:49 | rach | it's more that full acquisitions represents quite a different business process within a library to simple acquisitions |
| 16:49 | kados | hehe |
| 16:50 | rach | which might get tangled |
| 16:50 | thd | rach: Of course, but some odd problems had crept in to what had been working code. Maybe chris has fixed them all now. I have not tried testing full acquisitions since installing 2.2.4 |
| 16:51 | rach | there may still be anomolies, our libraries are still testing, and we're still bug fixing |
| 16:52 | I think that our templates should be in CVS if you want to check them out and take a look | |
| 16:54 | thd | rach: If the point where the invoice number was not being saved and one other show stopper has been corrected then I should be OK showing the possibility. |
| 16:55 | owen | I don't think so rach |
| 17:00 | rach | sorry I'm not sure wether chris is waiting to commit when they are actually right, or if he's doing it as he goes - we haven't changed the main templates AFAIK so if they were template bugs they'll still be there |
| 17:02 | chris is on the road today going library visiting | |
| 17:08 | thd | rach: chris had said a month ago that he had committed many fixes for acquisitions but still had more to finish. |
| 17:09 | rach | yep they have been coming thick and fast |
| 17:11 | thd | kados: are you still here? |
| 10:56 | owen | Hi paul |
| 10:56 | paul | hi owen |
| 10:57 | everything quiet on the channel today... | |
| 10:57 | owen | Joshua and I have been very busy lately...not much time for Koha unfortunately |
| 10:57 | paul | some news about PROG templates ? |
| 10:58 | owen | No. :( |
| 10:58 | paul | (because I should have some time to spend on HEAD in a week or 2) |
| 10:58 | (and would prefer work on PROG...) | |
| 10:58 | owen | I'll see what I can find out from Joshua. |
| 10:59 | paul | my main problem is that I get an Internal server error when changing to PROG. |
| 10:59 | a missing template it seems. | |
| 10:59 | do you want it's name ? | |
| 10:59 | (an included one) | |
| 10:59 | owen | Sure. I can fix that at least |
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