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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:01 | thd | osmoze: diacritical marks are the marks for characters that the Americans left out of the standard for computing when they defined ASCII to include 'e' but not 'é'. |
| 12:03 | osmoze: My question is whether 'é' for example is stored as one byte or two in your records. | |
| 12:08 | hdl | hi thd |
| 12:12 | inside the database, it is latin1_swedish for mysql | |
| 12:15 | thd | hello hdl |
| 12:17 | hdl: It would still be possible to store multibyte character sets as latin1_swedish. They would simply not be indexed correctly. | |
| 12:23 | hdl: The cataloguers at NPL overwrite the multibyte MARC-8 character set entities for characters with diacritical marks when they have been using properly encoded Library of Congress records for cataloguing. | |
| 12:25 | hdl: NPL replaces the multibyte representations of 'é' as two bytes with the UTF-7 'é' as one byte. | |
| 12:26 | hdl: Do the cataloguers where you are do anything similar to copy catalogued records from BnF for example? | |
| 12:26 | osmoze | how, i discover the nelsonville website |
| 12:27 | how adding pics of book in koha ? | |
| 12:27 | there is a lot of idea for my library | |
| 12:28 | a great website :) | |
| 12:29 | thd | osmoze: http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/ is the OPAC |
| 12:30 | osmoze | yes, but some book have pic |
| 12:30 | pics | |
| 12:31 | thd | osmoze: kados wrote the scripts for using Amazon web services to obtain book cover images and text. |
| 12:31 | osmoze | hum, ok |
| 12:31 | but, if i want to scan, it's possible ? | |
| 12:32 | thd | osmoze: I think the feature is documented in detail.pl if your installation is up to date. |
| 12:32 | osmoze | ok, i ll see tomorrow :) thanks a lot |
| 12:33 | thd | osmoze: You need your own developers token from Amazon and you would need to adjust the scripts for amazon,fr. |
| 12:36 | osmoze | so, whe are a little library, and that's be simply to scan book and cd, because, for exemple, a lot of books are not in amazon |
| 12:36 | thd | osmoze: scan would be possible. Then you would be doing something like the latest borrower images addition. |
| 12:36 | hdl | thd : excuse me. |
| 12:36 | thd | yes hdl |
| 12:37 | osmoze | hdl, je t inderdit de regarder toutes mes fautes d'anglais ^^ |
| 12:37 | interdis | |
| 12:37 | (meme en francais...) | |
| 12:37 | dinner for me | |
| 12:37 | bye | |
| 12:37 | thd | hdl: with answers to all the world's problems? |
| 13:16 | hello hdl | |
| 13:17 | hdl | striving to answer your question. |
| 13:22 | BNF's z3950 server uses UNIMARC. so it should be ISO8859-15 charset or ISO646 or ISO-5426 | |
| 13:23 | None of our cuestomers had problems with import. | |
| 13:27 | thd | hdl: 8859 is not defined for UNIMARC that I can see. |
| 13:27 | hdl: ISO 5426 is really what I am asking about | |
| 13:29 | hdl: osmoze had 100 $a/27-29 showing use of ISO 5426 for his records. | |
| 13:31 | hdl: If my information is correct ISO 5426 gives multibyte characters for characters with accents. | |
| 13:33 | hdl: the first non-spacing character would be for the ISO 5426 diacritical mark and the second character would be for the accented ISO 646 letter. | |
| 13:37 | hdl: Therefore \xC2\x65 would be 'é' | |
| 13:39 | hdl: \xC2 is for the acute accent and \x65 is for the 'e' | |
| 13:48 | hdl: look at Character set standardisation: migration strategies to unicode for national bibliographic databases : final technical report of the CHASE Project http://www.kb.nl/gabriel/proje[…]s/cobra/chase.pdf | |
| 13:54 | hdl: given part of what you said, I would expect that your libraries would have similar problems to NPL with characters containing diacritical marks unless some system was automatically correcting for this and converting to UTF-7. | |
| 13:57 | hdl: what system are your libraries using for copy cataloguing. Are they copy cataloguing outside the Koha or within the Koha record editor? | |
| 13:59 | hdl: Is it too late for you again today? :) | |
| 14:09 | hdl | no. |
| 14:10 | I have a baby... And that's why :) | |
| 14:11 | thd | hdl: If you have a baby, then you are not even allowed to sleep :) |
| 14:11 | hdl | thd : he he :) |
| 14:11 | But My computer is in the baby's room | |
| 14:12 | thd | hdl: So your baby is allowed to sleep. |
| 14:14 | hdl: Does that mean you cannot answer now about what system are your libraries using for copy cataloguing? The Koha editor or otherwise? | |
| 14:15 | hdl | No. |
| 14:15 | They use Koha Cataloguing. | |
| 14:15 | for SURE. | |
| 14:16 | But, some asked a question about accents and it seems that when searching with accents, some have problems that others don't. | |
| 14:17 | thd | hdl: And there is no code hidden somewhere I did not find in Koha to convert character sets? |
| 14:17 | hdl: what problems do you have searching for accents? | |
| 14:18 | hdl | Some would find search accent-sensitive, others donot. |
| 14:18 | hidden code is MARC conversion. | |
| 14:19 | It seems that MARC::Record uses certain type of character.* | |
| 14:19 | thd | hdl: What type of MARC conversion? |
| 14:20 | hdl | With breeding.pl, when you import MARC records, you can choose US-MARC or UNIMARC. |
| 14:20 | And this has some kind of charset code underneath. | |
| 14:22 | thd | hdl: But if you start with one record format such as MARC 21 breeding.pl will not convert to the other UNIMARC format will it? |
| 14:25 | hdl: I do not quite follow what you mean by MARC::Record itself using a certain type of character. Character encoding is supposed to be defined in the record itself such as 100 $a/26-29 | |
| 14:26 | for UNIMARC. | |
| 14:28 | hdl | thd : you should be right in theory. |
| 14:28 | But maybe practise is different. | |
| 14:29 | thd | hdl: Also, Is there a Koha or MySQL version that distinguishes those libraries that have an accent sensitive search from those that do not? |
| 14:31 | hdl: How would you account for the accent searching anomaly? | |
| 14:32 | hdl: An OS setup issue? | |
| 14:33 | hdl | It is someone who did install without assistance. |
| 14:33 | we don't know what machine he has. | |
| 14:33 | What he did before. | |
| 14:33 | How he installed the stuff. | |
| 14:34 | thd | hdl: Which searching behaviour was obtained without assistance? |
| 14:34 | hdl | accent-sensitive search. |
| 14:36 | thd | hdl: Do your other installations all have non-accent sensitive search? |
| 14:38 | hdl | yes. |
| 14:39 | thd | hdl: Well at least the English users probably prefer non-accent sensitive search by default. |
| 14:40 | hdl | And french too. |
| 14:40 | :) | |
| 14:42 | thd | hdl: The French ones at least have the correct keyboard for constructing accents and know how to use it even if some accented characters may be more awkward to type than ASCII, ISO 646 |
| 14:42 | osmoze | hdl, sais tu si en france on peux mettre les photos des livres lors des recherches (au niveau des droits ) |
| 14:46 | hdl | thd : hopefully. |
| 14:46 | thd | osmoze: Are you asking about the copyright of cover images? |
| 14:47 | hdl | osmoze : Bonne question. En fait, amazon te laisse faire cela si tu fait un lien vers eux. |
| 14:47 | osmoze | yes thd |
| 14:47 | hdl | En ce qui concerne la possibilité de faire cela par toi-même.... |
| 14:47 | J'avoue que je ne sais pas. | |
| 14:48 | osmoze | je pense pas, mais mieux vaut partir du debut quand on a une idée :) |
| 14:49 | ma biliothecaire me dit que c est pas faisable | |
| 14:49 | a cause des droits | |
| 14:49 | hdl | techniquement : Tu peux utiliser la solution utilisée par la NPL pour avoir les photos des lecteurs. Elle me semble fort intéressante. |
| 14:50 | osmoze | des lecteurs ? |
| 14:51 | hdl | Mais d'un point de vue juridique : Pourquoi ne pas poser la question sur fmd.internet |
| 14:51 | osmoze | c est ? |
| 14:51 | hdl | En fait, il suffit de faire un répertoire image dans les includes par exemple, ou au même niveau. |
| 14:52 | Et tu enregistres les images avec identifiant.jpg | |
| 14:52 | Ensuite, dans les template, tu ajoute la ligne : | |
| 14:52 | osmoze | thd, yes, brcause the manager of my library say that it's not possible in france to have book's picture |
| 14:54 | hdl, apparement c est bien plus interessant la photo des livres que des lecteurs | |
| 14:54 | thd | osmoze: That would be the law everywhere that I know. |
| 14:55 | hdl | <img src="/images/<!-- TMPL_VAR name="borrowernumber" -->.jpg" /> |
| 14:55 | Thx owen. | |
| 14:55 | osmoze | hdl, logique effectivement :) |
| 14:56 | thd | osmoze: You need an agreement with a publishers association like the one that Amazon would have made where either you can use the images liberally at your library or you can provide a compensating link to buy the material as Amazon requires. |
| 14:57 | hdl | osmoze : fmd.internet est fr.misc.droit.internet : c'est un forum français. |
| 14:58 | osmoze | thd, hum...oki oki, business is business |
| 15:02 | thd | hdl: I will have to experiment with directly gathering some French UNIMARC records with accents from BnF myself and see what I find encoded to explore the ISO 5426 issue further. |
| 15:02 | hdl | Do you want BNF Z3950 IDs ? |
| 15:03 | thd | hdl: yes that may help/ |
| 15:05 | hdl | Server : z3950.bnf.fr |
| 15:05 | Port : 2211 | |
| 15:05 | Database : Catalogue Bn-Opale plus | |
| 15:05 | Database name : TOUT | |
| 15:05 | User : Z3950 | |
| 15:05 | Password : Z3950_BNF | |
| 15:05 | Element set : F | |
| 15:05 | Version : 2 | |
| 15:05 | Record syntax : UNIMARC | |
| 15:10 | thd | hdl: Does BnF have other databases? |
| 15:11 | hdl | No. |
| 15:11 | Why ? | |
| 15:11 | osmoze | opale ? |
| 15:11 | hdl | Do you have a problem ? |
| 15:11 | osmoze | there is no database only for audio ? (cd and other) ? |
| 15:11 | hdl | Is there ? |
| 15:12 | osmoze | (and google) |
| 15:12 | thd | hdl; LC has had multiple databases that only gradually decrease in number. |
| 15:14 | osmoze | hdl, opale is the same cataloue ? |
| 15:14 | +g | |
| 15:14 | thd | hdl; LC has had separate databases for in process record with only cataloguing in publication information and also PREMARC for records retrospectively converted to MARC from catalogue cards.. |
| 15:21 | osmoze | thd-away, i found another for your test : http://www.bibli.ens-cachan.fr[…]/profil_z3950.htm |
| 16:16 | hdl, peut on consulter un server z3950 en marc21 si on est en unimarc ? | |
| 16:18 | ou usmarc aussi | |
| 16:44 | Genji | morning all. |
| 17:17 | Jo | Hey Chris. |
| 17:17 | are you about? | |
| 17:18 | left message for you on hlt | |
| 17:19 | chris | heya jo |
| 17:41 | Genji | hey chris, had a look at my picture bit? |
| 17:42 | chris | havent had a chance yet sorry genji |
| 20:07 | kados | chris: you about? got a quick borrower permissions question |
| 20:08 | is there any way to make a 'patron category' automatically have a 'permissions' level? | |
| 20:47 | Genji | kados: hmm... interesting idea..... |
| 20:48 | kados: you mean a flag template? | |
| 20:48 | kados | Genji: well ... it would be neat to be able to specify a default set of permissions based on the borrower category |
| 20:50 | Genji | kados: like, the permissions listed in modify flags, in borrowers section? |
| 20:59 | kados | Genji: exactly |
| 21:03 | Genji | kados: the flags are just 1's and 0's in a string of int(11) so should be easy to implement your request. |
| 21:04 | kados: so, you want a "modify flags" button on the borrower group add/modify page, right? | |
| 21:05 | kados | Genji: borrower categories: cgi-bin/koha/admin/categorie.pl |
| 21:05 | Genji: from each category ... a way to set the default permissions for borrowers in that category | |
| 21:06 | Genji | kados: Thats basically what i said. Forgot the term though. |
| 21:06 | kados | Genji: the problem is that you'd want to make sure you didn't override the _actual_ permissions set for individual users |
| 21:06 | Genji: so you'd want an inheritence scheme | |
| 21:06 | Genji: not quite as simple ;-) | |
| 21:06 | Genji | kados: right. so.. if the user has flags set, those flags set precidence against the catagory flags? |
| 21:07 | kados | Genji: exactly |
| 21:07 | Genji: while you're at it ... | |
| 21:08 | Genji: did you see my post about an arbitrary tree for branch relationships? | |
| 21:08 | Genji | not yet. where is it? |
| 21:08 | kados | Genji: it might be nice to unify all permissions in Koha |
| 21:08 | GenI'll see if I can dig it up | |
| 21:11 | Genji | unified permissions? |
| 21:12 | kados | Genji: right ... so imagine a single set of permissions for every object |
| 21:13 | library systems, consortiums, branches, users, items, etc. | |
| 21:13 | and inheritence rules | |
| 21:14 | I can't find that post btw | |
| 21:14 | Genji | not sure i get it. |
| 21:14 | kados | yea ... I need to write up an explaination and post it to koha-devel |
| 21:14 | but I haven't had a chance ... been so busy | |
| 21:18 | Genji: http://sourceforge.net/mailarc[…]p?msg_id=12324431 | |
| 21:18 | Genji: that's a bit of what I mean ... not everything though ;-) | |
| 21:34 | Genji | kados: well.. i can certainly do the borrower categories permission bit. |
| 21:34 | kados: but as for the whole unified scheme... i don't understand it. | |
| 21:35 | ? | |
| 21:41 | kados | I've really got to get to bed ;-) |
| 21:42 | I'll try to write a message to koha-devel tomorrow explaining my ideas | |
| 21:49 | thd | ambrose: are you still awake? |
| 21:50 | ambrose | thd: yes, but i haven't looked at my problem |
| 21:53 | Genji | kados: still there? |
| 21:55 | thd | ambrose: I had an interesting discussion with hdl and osmoze earlier today where it seems they have no problems with ISO 5426 character sets in their UNIMARC records even though I would have expected to see a problem for all accented characters being multibyte. |
| 21:57 | ambrose | thd: if i am correct that corruption only affects windows-1252-specific bytes (i.e., 0x80-0x9f), then it is probably natural for iso character sets (other than 10646) to have no problems |
| 21:57 | thd | ambrose: They seem not to have multibyte characters where the records themselves say that they should. |
| 21:57 | ambrose | thd: i don't know anything about iso 5426, but both iso 2022 and 8859 character sets won't touch 0x80-0x9f |
| 21:57 | oh | |
| 21:58 | thd | ambrose: ISO 5426 and MARC-8 are special character sets for libraries. |
| 22:00 | ambrose: They are difficult to work with because they are not supported by the major character set conversion functions. | |
| 22:02 | ambrose: owen told me today that NPL removes any double byte MARC-8 accented character it finds from copy catalogued sources and substitutes the single byte UTF-7 equivalent. | |
| 22:04 | ambrose: For some reason the French do not have to work around that for ISO 5426 even though their problem should be the same with multibyte accented characters. | |
| 22:21 | ambrose: Why would your corruption issue be related to Windows specific characters such as stupid quotes? | |
| 23:01 | ambrose: I have no glyph for the drachma, \xa5 in ISO 8859-7, on my fully encoded Debian system. It resembles the characters with no glyphs on your image. | |
| 23:05 | ambrose: I can have Greek but I have to trade in dollars, pounds, or euros :) | |
| 23:07 | unless I do multibyte trading, although, I suspect that I would still lack the glyph. | |
| 23:27 | ambrose | thd: i don't know why the corruption would be related to Windows specific characters, but that is my observation |
| 23:31 | thd | ambrose: do you know anything more about your problem such as whether the character data was being manually entered or copy catalogued? |
| 23:44 | ambrose | thd: unfortunately no. i should be less lazy and do my testing.... |
| 01:38 | osmoze | good morning koha |
| 02:23 | do you know if it's possible to count th number of borrowers by site ? | |
| 02:35 | ok, i ve modified the borrowers_stats.pl & tmpl | |
| 03:08 | bonjour hdl | |
| 03:10 | hdl | Salut Osmoze |
| 03:11 | osmoze | sais tu si on peux rajouter du php a l interieur d une page ? |
| 05:10 | hdl | osmoze : Pourquoi pas. Mais ce ne sont pas des templates standards !!!! |
| 05:10 | Alors attention aux futures mises à jour. | |
| 05:10 | Mieux vaut réserver cela à un portail d'entrée. | |
| 06:32 | osmoze | hdl : en fait, je voudrais rajouter un tout petit script php dans une des pages |
| 06:33 | j ai essayer d ouvrir une balise php dans le tmpl mais c est pas ca ^^ | |
| 06:33 | un indice ? | |
| 08:56 | hdl | osmoze : je n'avais pas vu ce que tu demandais. |
| 08:59 | osmoze :En fait, normalement, si tu mets simplement le script php dans la page, ça devrait marcher | |
| 09:00 | hi thd. I am here. | |
| 09:00 | osmoze :Mais pour pouvoir t'aider efficacement, il faudrait que tu me décrives ton problème | |
| 09:09 | osmoze | hdl> je mets le script dans le tmpl ou le pl ? en fait, j ai rajouter les photos des borrowers, mais je me penche sur deux choses : une page pour l upload des photos avec correspondance (exemple, upload photo avec n°de carte) et ensuite, pour l affichage, je voulais passer par un script qui utilise image magick, j ai trouver les commande pour utiliser le image::imagick de perl, mais comme je connais pas perle |
| 09:10 | pour le redimensionnement | |
| 09:10 | de plus, sur la page d accueil de l opac, je veux rajouter un script aussi pour la securité (script php de log d ip etc etc) | |
| 09:11 | hdl | As-tu activer le php sur ta machine ? |
| 09:12 | osmoze | oui ^^ |
| 09:12 | hdl | Ne faudrait-il pas indiquer que c'est un script php pour que Apache le traite comme tel ? |
| 09:12 | osmoze | j utilise d autre site dessus |
| 09:12 | (phpmyadmin par exemple ) | |
| 09:12 | hdl | Je me pose des questions. |
| 09:13 | osmoze | si, mais dans le tmpl, les deux cas : avec ouverture de balise <? ?> et sans, c est pareil |
| 09:13 | je me demande si un print"<? xxx ?>" fonctionnerai ou pas | |
| 09:15 | a moins que je rajoute un : | |
| 09:15 | <script language="php"> | |
| 09:15 | xxx</script> | |
| 09:24 | hdl | osmoze : Normalement, il faut au moi <?php ?> |
| 09:25 | Peut-être un script language="php" serait-il plus approprié. | |
| 09:29 | Un chose est sûre, c'est qu'il faut que cela soit intégré au template. | |
| 09:31 | osmoze | hdl> tout essayer dans le template, rien n y fait...Peut etre faut il un module perl particulier |
| 09:40 | hdl | osmoze : il semblerait que le script php ne soit pas interprété. |
| 09:41 | Certainement le Template n'est pas réinterprété. | |
| 09:41 | Mais je vais essayer de trouver pourquoi. | |
| 09:41 | osmoze | hdl> |
| 09:41 | module php pour perl | |
| 09:41 | j ai fait un | |
| 09:42 | perl -MCPAN -e 'install "PHP"' | |
| 09:42 | et apparement ca marche, maintenant je regrde l aide sur cpan pour l utilisation | |
| 09:49 | bonne soirée | |
| 10:39 | thd | hello hdl |
| 10:43 | hdl: I was up very late last night looking at my code to find some simple authentication syntax error while receiving 'init rejected' messages from BNF :( | |
| 10:44 | hdl: I will have to look at my connection problem further. | |
| 10:46 | osmoze, hdl: however, I have a guess about why you have no ISO 5426 problems with your records. | |
| 10:47 | hdl: As you had said yesterday hdl, BNF supports 8859-15. | |
| 10:50 | osmoze, hdl: BNF must be using 8859-15 to transmit despite the encoding in the records claiming ISO 5426. | |
| 10:51 | however, I have not been able to connect yet to confirm that speculation for myself. |
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