mn.. i feel like a retard← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 13:19 | Ryanbisd | cool, I will try that then.... |
| 13:19 | we are at a very early stage in the koha development here..... so we are learning as we go. | |
| 14:32 | tim | Does anyone here know how I could get it so I can use something like http://www.library.org/intranet instead of http://www.library.org:8080 ? |
| 14:32 | and mor important /opac or /search or something like that. | |
| 14:34 | owen | Tim, you might want to ask that on the Koha list, because I know it can be done. |
| 14:35 | Joshua (kados) has set it up for us. | |
| 14:35 | tim | I thought you were doing something like http://search.library.org |
| 14:35 | shaun | yes - I have the answers, right here, but kados will give you a less hacky solution no doubt |
| 14:36 | tim | I just loaded the apache docs. Shoulda done that before I asked. |
| 14:36 | Of course that doesn't mean I'll figure it out. :) | |
| 14:48 | thd | tim: check the documentation for your version of Apache under the virtual hosts section. Study the examples page. You want a named based virtual host. |
| 14:48 | s/named/name | |
| 15:12 | tim | thd: So far I'm just finding how to put them on different ports like I already have and use virtual hosts, but that looks like it would require DNS changes for people to access it. |
| 15:13 | That's ok for the intranet, but we want people to be able to access the opac from outside and we don't manage our own DNS. | |
| 15:47 | thd | tim: Do you run your own server for the outside now? |
| 15:47 | tim | Yeah |
| 15:53 | thd | time: Do you not have access to the Apache configuration files on that server? |
| 15:55 | tim | Yeah, I do. |
| 15:56 | Or at least I do on the one we'll be using when we start running Koha. | |
| 15:57 | Ryanbisd | tim: do you work for katipo, or are you implimenting koha also? |
| 15:57 | tim | The current one is a turnkey thing with limeted acdess. |
| 15:57 | I'm implimentinng Koha in our library. | |
| 15:58 | Ryanbisd | cool... |
| 15:58 | just wondering | |
| 15:58 | what stage are you at, and how long do you think the conversion will take total? | |
| 16:04 | tim | I don't have everything I need in yet and every time I test something I find a mistake in what I have so far. |
| 16:05 | thd | tim: Does server that you are testing Koha on have domain name services directed at its IP address?? |
| 16:05 | tim | No. It won't till it's closer to ready. |
| 16:06 | It's just an internal IP for now. | |
| 16:07 | thd | tim: you could register a domain name for testing purposes or just use the external IP address for the system with port forwarding. |
| 16:12 | tim | If I'm going to bother registering a domain name I'll just add a virtual name and have them set that up on our DNS. |
| 16:13 | I'll probably do that anyway. I was trying to think of ways to make it so I don't have to have someone else do something before I get it to work, but I'm sure the people who deal with it will handle things pretty quick. | |
| 16:14 | thd | tim: Who is 'them'? |
| 16:14 | tim | Them are the ISP folks who do our DNS. |
| 16:15 | Ryanbisd | item fields ALL items fields MUST : |
| 16:15 | be mapped to the same tag, | |
| 16:15 | and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab | |
| 16:15 | ||
| 16:15 | itemtypes table empty the itemtypes table is empty. It must contain at least 1 value | |
| 16:15 | I keep getting this msg when i do marc check | |
| 16:15 | rach | do you have any itemtypes set up? |
| 16:16 | Ryanbisd | no.. |
| 16:16 | thd | rach: no or that message would not be returning |
| 16:16 | Ryanbisd | I dont think so |
| 16:16 | is that in links koha Marc DB or in biblo framework? | |
| 16:17 | thd | Ryanbisd: You have to create at least one item type. That should be part of the default install but is not. |
| 16:17 | rach | to get rid of that particular message, I'd set one up in the itemtypes prevferences bit |
| 16:17 | so "neither" | |
| 16:17 | Ryanbisd | doh... stupid me.. |
| 16:18 | so like, I define Book... or Video | |
| 16:18 | rach | yep |
| 16:18 | Ryanbisd | dmn.. i feel like a retard |
| 16:18 | rach | it should match the ones in your data :-) |
| 16:18 | sometimes it's the simple things that trip you up | |
| 16:19 | Ryanbisd | ad its this last one |
| 16:19 | item fields ALL items fields MUST : | |
| 16:19 | be mapped to the same tag, | |
| 16:19 | and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab | |
| 16:19 | ||
| 16:20 | rach | yep - so you need one itemtype setup |
| 16:20 | then I think you need to make sure you're mapping the itemtpyes from any existing data to that field | |
| 16:20 | Ryanbisd | ohh... from my old marc records |
| 16:20 | the ones im importing | |
| 16:21 | rach | yep |
| 16:21 | thd | tim: I do not understand the details of your configuration well enough to give you a good suggestion about how to set up external access on your own. I would not want to suggest something that might redirect services from your production system. |
| 16:21 | Ryanbisd | see, I was told that my barcodes in the imported MR are at 852p |
| 16:21 | and the call number is at 900a | |
| 16:23 | tim | thd: No problem. I was just checking to see if anyone could suggest a way to make Koha load from a subdirectory instead of through a port or virtual host. |
| 16:23 | thd | Ryanbisd: Remember that 900a does not exist in the default MARC framework you have to create that yourself unless you remap its value before importing. |
| 16:26 | tim: virtual hosts are used for subdirectory mappings for what you want, although, symlinks could have the same effect. | |
| 16:27 | Ryanbisd | rach, can you look at a sample of my marc records and see if my barcode is 852$p? |
| 16:28 | www.bsaclaims.com/~ryan/marctest.001 | |
| 16:29 | thd | tim: One thing that does not work in Apache 1.x is a virtual host where \d = some number you have something like \d\d\d\d.\d\d\d\d.\d\d\d\d.\d\d\d\d/opac |
| 16:30 | tim: mixing an IP address and a directory name does not work with Apache 1.x virtual hosts. | |
| 16:32 | tim: If you only have an IP address for Apache to work with then you need to differentialte virtual hosts by port number in Apache 1.2 | |
| 16:33 | Ryanbisd: If your information is unchanged since yesterday, then your barcodes certainly were in 852 $p | |
| 16:33 | tim | thd: I'm using apache 2. |
| 16:34 | thd: I was thinking the virtusl host thing only did stuff like koha.library.org instead of www.library.org/koha/ like I was trying to do. | |
| 16:34 | Ryanbisd | how do you view them to see that information? |
| 16:34 | thd | tim: I have not upgraded yet because of compatiblity issues with other software for any system I have. |
| 16:34 | tim | thd: I'll look into that more. |
| 16:35 | thd | tim: virtual hosts can do either. |
| 16:35 | Ryanbisd | item fields ALL items fields MUST : |
| 16:35 | be mapped to the same tag, | |
| 16:35 | and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab | |
| 16:35 | ||
| 16:35 | what "tab" is it talking about? | |
| 16:36 | and what is the 10 (items) field? | |
| 16:36 | owen | The tabs are in the MARC edit screen |
| 16:36 | The "10 (items)" refers to the item edit screen | |
| 16:37 | thd | Ryanbisd: To view the records yourself you could exprt them as text files with MARC Magician or try http://marcpm.sourceforge.net/[…]bin/converter.cgi . |
| 16:37 | Ryanbisd | cool.. |
| 16:38 | owen: I have to define a value for every feild in the items tag? | |
| 16:39 | thd | tim: http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2[…]sts/examples.html |
| 16:40 | owen | I'm not sure what you mean, Ryanbisd |
| 16:40 | Ryanbisd | item fields ALL items fields MUST : |
| 16:40 | be mapped to the same tag, | |
| 16:40 | and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab | |
| 16:40 | ||
| 16:41 | im getting that error, but I dont know what I am susposed to do. | |
| 16:41 | because my barcode is 852p | |
| 16:41 | but all the items are set to 900's | |
| 16:42 | tim | Ryanbisd: I had the same problem. I had to move or copy infromation from field to field to get things set right. |
| 16:43 | Ryanbisd | is there anyway that I can have my barcode set to a 900 field, but read from an 800? |
| 16:43 | thereis... I think i remember seeing it.. | |
| 16:46 | under marc subfield structure | |
| 16:46 | right? | |
| 16:46 | tim | Ryanbisd: do you mean all of your copy info is set to the 900's or the Koha defaults are set to the 900's? |
| 16:46 | Ryanbisd | I have it set in the 900's now.. |
| 16:47 | owen | we have item fields mapped to 956: homebranch (b), holdingbranch (d), barcode (p), price (r), dateaccessioned (v), notforloan (y) and itemnumber (u) |
| 16:47 | Ryanbisd | but, under the 952p I have it set to also look in 852p |
| 16:47 | tim | So that's where the info is in your records? |
| 16:47 | Ryanbisd | no. in my records its set to 852p |
| 16:47 | http://lib-intra.burlesonisd.n[…]52&frameworkcode= | |
| 16:48 | username is kohaadmin | |
| 16:48 | pw is temp123 | |
| 16:48 | go down to the section P... and see if that will work | |
| 16:49 | thd | Ryanbisd changed the barcode setting in items.barcode form 952 $p to 852 $p. |
| 16:50 | Ryanbisd | i put it in the 'search also' box |
| 16:50 | because I cant have an itemtype set to 800's | |
| 16:51 | thd | owen: Is there a setting that must also be changed in parallel for changing the default MARC field and subfield value for items.barcode? |
| 16:51 | owen | I don't know |
| 16:52 | Ryanbisd | i changed it back to 952 |
| 16:52 | if thats the only error I have.. .would it really matter? | |
| 16:56 | thd | Ryanbisd: I understand the error now |
| 16:56 | tim | thd: Thanks for the help |
| 16:57 | thd | tim: :) |
| 16:57 | tim | I just looked at the records that Ryanbisd showed us a while back and it looks like all of his item info is in 852. |
| 16:59 | I guess I'm outta here for the day. Thanks again. | |
| 16:59 | thd | Ryanbisd, now disconnected, needs to change everything in the items table to 852 |
| 21:11 | Genji: are you there? | |
| 00:26 | Genji | thd: yup |
| 01:08 | gone now though. | |
| 08:07 | kados | morning owen |
| 08:07 | owen | Hi kados |
| 08:08 | I've been working on the programmer templates | |
| 08:08 | kados | sweet |
| 08:08 | owen | That's what's on 101 right now |
| 08:09 | I've got most of the member pages done | |
| 08:09 | kados | very nice |
| 08:09 | owen | I've got a stripped-down stylesheet attached, just to make it easier on the eyes. |
| 08:10 | kados | yep ... looks very nice |
| 08:10 | owen | It's a tough process. It's sometimes hard to decide what should stay in and what shouldn't |
| 08:10 | kados | I can imagine ;-) |
| 08:12 | I think we need to adopt a syntax for searches | |
| 08:22 | owen | kados: like a standard contruction syntax that will define how ANDs and ORs etc. translate to SQL? |
| 08:23 | kados | yes to the first no to the second |
| 08:23 | I've been looking at CQL a bit more | |
| 08:23 | http://www.loc.gov/z3950/agency/zing/cql/ | |
| 08:23 | I think folks have been intimidated by it | |
| 08:23 | because the site is fairly academic | |
| 08:24 | but when you dive into it it's fairly straightforward | |
| 08:24 | owen | The last time it was discussed people were distracted by the idea that the patrons would have to learn it to be able to do a search. |
| 08:24 | kados | yea |
| 08:24 | but that's not actually true | |
| 08:24 | patron's won't have a hard time doing 'author=neal stephenson' | |
| 08:24 | or 'title=cryptonomicon' | |
| 08:25 | and of course CQL will accept straight keywords with no qualifiers | |
| 08:25 | the thing is | |
| 08:26 | with any advanced search syntax there is some learning curve | |
| 08:26 | like how many folks know that they can do 'inurl:liblime.com koha' in a google search? | |
| 08:26 | or 'intitle:koha site:liblime.com' | |
| 08:28 | the nice thing about CQL is the learning curve for the actual queries isn't that steep | |
| 08:29 | I do agree with MJ that the use of : as a marker is nice | |
| 08:30 | as is - and + | |
| 08:30 | so maybe our objective is to support multiple syntax types for input | |
| 08:31 | and use CQL in the background for the server interactions | |
| 08:31 | I'm still not clear on how to use CQL with Zebra | |
| 08:32 | to perform the actual queries on the index | |
| 08:41 | owen | I think we need to look at how to support Google-style queries, with quotes deliniating phrases at the very least |
| 09:13 | hdl | hi kados |
| 09:14 | Have I missed sthg ? | |
| 09:14 | kados | hi hdl |
| 09:14 | don't think so ;-) | |
| 09:14 | hdl | ok. |
| 09:14 | kados | just me musing about query syntax ;-) |
| 09:14 | hdl | I have a question : |
| 09:14 | kados | sure |
| 09:14 | hdl | We are trying to make a sort of base modifications watch. |
| 09:15 | kados | ok ... what does that mean exactly |
| 09:16 | hdl | First question is : Where do things should be commited ? i.e. In C4::Miantainance, as I previously did, or in C4::Koha, or else ??? |
| 09:16 | Second question that goes along is : | |
| 09:16 | Do we want these operations to be atomic ? | |
| 09:17 | That is, as soon as You have added a biblio. | |
| 09:17 | you also added a logentry | |
| 09:17 | Or do you prefer the ewo operations to be disticnt. | |
| 09:17 | kados | hmmm ... |
| 09:17 | hdl | disctinct. |
| 09:18 | s/ewo/two/ | |
| 09:18 | kados | so what you're proposing is a way to keep track of modifications (adding and deleting) of records in Koha? |
| 09:18 | hdl | Yes. |
| 09:19 | In a new table : action_logs | |
| 09:19 | kados | I'm not sure about which module it should be coded in .. |
| 09:19 | maybe we need a new module | |
| 09:19 | that is used specifically for monitoring the system | |
| 09:19 | hdl | timestamp, userid, module, action and parameters are logged |
| 09:20 | Which name in this case. | |
| 09:20 | kados | hmmm ... that sounds very similar to the statistics stuff |
| 09:20 | what is this functionality called in SQL? | |
| 09:20 | hdl | Yes and no. Its purpose is not stats, but monitor. |
| 09:21 | I insert a new line in the database. | |
| 09:21 | Maybe Mysql has a log facility. | |
| 09:21 | kados | inright |
| 09:21 | hdl | But I don't know... |
| 09:22 | And We should be DBM independant. | |
| 09:22 | kados | how about Log.pm? |
| 09:22 | hdl | ok. |
| 09:22 | I take it. | |
| 09:22 | kados | and we can put the Stats.pm stuff in there eventually |
| 09:23 | maybe? ... we can discuss this later | |
| 09:23 | hdl | ok. I am doing a Log.pm. and use it. |
| 09:23 | kados | and by 'atomic' do you mean 'automatic;? |
| 09:23 | I think there should be a system preference for turning the Log on and off | |
| 09:24 | because it will likely impact performance | |
| 09:24 | hdl: did you see my recent post about paul and your plans for multiple branch support? | |
| 09:26 | hdl | No I mean : as soon as you have a database mod, you are ensured that dataentry is done to the table. |
| 09:26 | i.e. same operation logging and adding/editing/deleting.... Which would lead to log.pm called in Biblio.pm for instance. | |
| 09:26 | kados : yes I read it. | |
| 09:27 | kados | hdl: I still don't understand the question |
| 09:28 | hdl: I think that Log.pm (if I understand what it is) should only be used if the library wants to use it | |
| 09:28 | hdl: because it may slow down adding/deleting things at NPL ;-) | |
| 09:28 | hdl: (though it would be useful to see _who_ deleted something they shouhldn't have ;-)) | |
| 09:28 | hdl | should I hide Log management in C4 modules, or leave it to the top level. |
| 09:28 | But what you said answered my question. | |
| 10:29 | thd | kados: are you still present? |
| 10:30 | kados | thd: yep |
| 10:30 | thd: what's up | |
| 10:31 | thd | CQL or whatever search syntax is used should be wrapped in a form |
| 10:31 | kados | thd: hmmm ... maybe ... |
| 10:32 | thd: at least for the advanced page | |
| 10:32 | thd | Therefore, the user does not have to learn the syntax, only the form |
| 10:32 | kados | thd: but the direction that most engines are moving in |
| 10:32 | is to allow direct syntax entry into a single form | |
| 10:32 | thd | Both methods should be provided for |
| 10:33 | kados | yep |
| 10:33 | thus we have 'simple' and 'advanced' search pages | |
| 10:33 | but the idea is | |
| 10:33 | we're taking our cue about future directions in searching | |
| 10:34 | from web search engines | |
| 10:34 | like google | |
| 10:34 | thd | A form allows you to change the underlying syntax without bothering the user about what the syntax actually is |
| 10:34 | kados | yep ... so we have both |
| 10:35 | thd | Google does not necessarily have the ideal solution |
| 10:35 | kados | I agree |
| 10:35 | I'm thinking we use CQL for sure | |
| 10:35 | but also allow author:neal stephenson | |
| 10:35 | and "once upon a time" phrase searching | |
| 10:36 | and I like '+stephenson -neal' | |
| 10:36 | thd | CQL is designed for SRW which has very few targets currently relative to Z39.50 |
| 10:37 | kados | well I'm going to propose we use Zebra's SRW functionality to expose our records for that protocol |
| 10:37 | in addition to Z39.50 | |
| 10:37 | CQL may not be widely adopted | |
| 10:37 | thd | Very forward thinking :) |
| 10:37 | kados | but that's the way of things |
| 10:38 | it will take a few years | |
| 10:38 | I'd rather be way ahead of the pack | |
| 10:38 | and it's not like it's hard ... index data has already done the hard part | |
| 10:39 | thd | I was thinking more of the issue of converting queries against the catalgoue to queries against the other outside resources which are mostly z39.50 |
| 10:39 | kados | yep ... we can easily do that with yaz-proxy |
| 10:40 | thd | kados: I love mapping, although, their is a bit of unpleasantness about most such tasks |
| 10:40 | s/their/there | |
| 10:41 | kados | agreed |
| 10:41 | thd | mapping is the key to interoperable systems when you cannot force everyone to adopt one standard |
| 10:41 | kados | yep ... which there's no way we can! |
| 10:42 | thd | Why can't you work around the logging performance issue with batch processing? |
| 10:44 | I saw a suggestion about batch processing cataloguing on the koha or koha-dev list recently | |
| 10:44 | kados | thd: I think batch processing is a good idea |
| 10:45 | thd: maybe for logging too ... but either way you still have some performance hit | |
| 10:45 | thd | kados: Do you mean an additional performance hit for logging even if batched? |
| 10:48 | owen: are you present? | |
| 10:48 | owen | yes |
| 10:49 | thd | owen: the ideal way to address the disposable serials issue is with a 772 linking field |
| 10:50 | I imagine there is some functionality one could borrow from the UNIMARC side | |
| 10:51 | owen | Can you elaborate? |
| 10:52 | thd | A well designed 77X plugin should copy required information from a linked record and then you would only need to modify a few subfields in 3 or 4 fields |
| 10:54 | So you would get all the bibliographic information that was the same for every issue of your serial copied from the other record and you would add the issue and holdings data. | |
| 10:55 | This would be a MARC21 compliant solution :) | |
| 11:01 | The linking fields are 76X - 79X. I am trying to fetch an example for you but my system is thrashing a bit. | |
| 11:03 | 245 04$aThe Post boy.$nNumb. 2436, from Thursday December 21 to Saturday December 23, 1710. | |
| 11:03 | 772 1#$7unas$aPost boy (London, England)$w(OCoLC)1234567 | |
| 11:04 | http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib1390.htm | |
| 11:06 | owen: In the example above, 772 $w is the control number for the linked record on your system and 245 $n has been added for the issue. | |
| 11:08 | owen | Sounds great in theory :) |
| 11:08 | thd | owen: 245 $a , 772 $a, and much else could have been copied by a plugin from the linked record |
| 11:12 | owen: I know there may be a more efficient way to solve your immediate problem with less effort but this standards compliant method would be reusable even for permanent records and other institutions where people go crazy over MARC standards :) | |
| 11:23 | owen | Something to be taken up with the developers... |
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