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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:02 | hdl | which problem is yours ? |
| 12:03 | kados | when we add an item to a biblio the itemnumber shows up in Koha tables but NOT in marc_subfield_table |
| 12:03 | we also have a renewal bug | |
| 12:03 | items are allowed to renew even when there is a reserve on the account | |
| 12:09 | hdl | It looks like my bug : Items in kohafield are not filling Marc_subfield_table. |
| 12:10 | So you can see them when searching, but cannot view their details. | |
| 12:19 | indradg | hi all... back here after quite a while... anyone around? |
| 12:22 | hdl | yes, but busy with a big black and furrious bug hunt. |
| 12:23 | indradg | hdl, any pre-set agenda for the next online meet? |
| 12:24 | owen | Choosing a new release manager will be the biggest item |
| 12:24 | hdl | Is the choice still to be made ? |
| 12:25 | owen | Yes. We don't really have a pre-existing system for choosing a release manager, so I think we'll rely on getting a consensus at the IRC meeting |
| 12:27 | hdl | the concensus will hopefully be quite easy to get ;) |
| 12:28 | indradg | hdl, should be... kados is a good choice :) |
| 12:30 | hdl | We also think so. :) |
| 12:31 | But the features improvement in 2.4 will certainly be extraordinary. | |
| 12:31 | indradg | drat! the meeting start time is 2:30 AM Calcutta time!!! |
| 12:32 | how lovely ;) | |
| 12:32 | hdl | 11 PM French time :( |
| 12:33 | But you got the worst ;) | |
| 12:33 | indradg | heh |
| 13:01 | hdl | bye |
| 14:41 | owen | hi tim |
| 14:56 | pate-work | hi tim |
| 14:57 | tim | hi everyone |
| 14:58 | indradg | hi tim |
| 15:52 | chris | morning |
| 16:06 | owen | Hey chris, I didn't see you come in. |
| 16:40 | rach | hello |
| 16:43 | kados | hi all |
| 16:43 | owen | kados, you've been a stranger lately. |
| 16:44 | Been busy? | |
| 16:44 | kados | well ... yesterday I was in bristolville |
| 16:44 | presenting Koha | |
| 16:44 | owen | Oh, cool--how'd it go? |
| 16:44 | kados | today I spent most of the day recovering from the driving and the all nigher I pulled on sunday |
| 16:45 | now I'm ready to get back to work k;-) | |
| 16:45 | it went pretty good | |
| 16:45 | the staff loved the idea of open source and loved the current functions in Koha | |
| 16:45 | better than the TLC system they had seen just a week ago | |
| 16:45 | but ... | |
| 16:46 | owen | I had a feeling a but was coming |
| 16:46 | kados | it looks like Bristolville won't spend any more than they are currently paying |
| 16:46 | chris | theres always a but |
| 16:46 | kados | ($800 per year for Follett) |
| 16:46 | yep | |
| 16:46 | owen | $800 per year?! What do they get with that, pencil and paper? |
| 16:47 | kados | The director spun it like the State was going to pick up the whole tab |
| 16:47 | chris | and the state wasnt aware of that fact? |
| 16:47 | kados | but when I actually spoke with Jo Budler she said that she told him she could only sponser a multi-library installation |
| 16:47 | the director is a bit of a yahoo | |
| 16:47 | :-) | |
| 16:48 | former lawyer | |
| 16:48 | chris | thats a shame |
| 16:48 | kados | yea ... well the good news is that there was another library there that looked interested in Koha |
| 16:48 | so if that library ends up wanting to switch that would make it possible for the state to sponser it | |
| 16:48 | but I'm not getting my hopes up too much | |
| 16:49 | the Follett system is pretty shoddy | |
| 16:49 | staff was really impressed with all the stuff we do with Koha's OPAC | |
| 16:50 | they also liked the idea of being able to sponser features that they wanted | |
| 16:50 | owen | They must be living in the dark ages |
| 16:50 | kados | yep |
| 16:51 | well it was good practice before we go to ALA | |
| 16:52 | I've got a better idea of the kinds of questions that folks will ask | |
| 16:52 | chris | its suprising how many ILS's are really really bad |
| 16:52 | kados: i played with plucene a bit last night | |
| 16:52 | kados | sweet! |
| 16:52 | how do you like it? | |
| 16:52 | chris | got a script called indexer.pl |
| 16:53 | kados | cool |
| 16:53 | chris | that querys the db, does a select * from biblio |
| 16:53 | and builds an index of that | |
| 16:53 | kados | excellent |
| 16:53 | chris | just title and author so far |
| 16:53 | i reckon its gonna be the way to do it | |
| 16:53 | kados | I think the best table to use would be marc_word |
| 16:53 | chris | yep |
| 16:53 | the way i see it | |
| 16:54 | use marc_word for keyword search | |
| 16:54 | but we dont have to just build one index | |
| 16:54 | we can build author_index | |
| 16:54 | subject_index | |
| 16:54 | etc | |
| 16:54 | so if someone wants to search just the authors | |
| 16:54 | we just use that index | |
| 16:54 | kados | right ... the trick will be getting ALL the relevant subject author etc data |
| 16:55 | I think we'll need to use the marc tables to do that | |
| 16:55 | chris | really? |
| 16:55 | kados | yep ... for example |
| 16:55 | take subject | |
| 16:55 | chris | biblosubject should contain it all |
| 16:55 | kados | currently, NPL's subjects are strewn across all the 600s |
| 16:55 | chris | ahh |
| 16:55 | kados | and bibliosubject only contains one entry |
| 16:56 | same applies with author | |
| 16:56 | chris | right thats broken |
| 16:56 | kados | and title even (with subtitle, etc) |
| 16:56 | chris | building the indexes from the marc tables wont be so bad, just slower |
| 16:56 | kados | IMO the whole point of using Lucene would be that we could search on full-text marc records |
| 16:56 | and we could 'tag' fields that go together | |
| 16:57 | chris | yep |
| 16:57 | kados | and we could assign different weights to different tags |
| 16:57 | for relevance sorting | |
| 16:57 | chris | yep |
| 16:57 | kados | so 600a gets priority over 630a |
| 16:57 | say | |
| 16:57 | chris | ud have to let the library do that |
| 16:57 | kados | we'd have to take that up with a cataloger |
| 16:57 | yep | |
| 16:58 | chris | id also like a simple interface to it too |
| 16:58 | kados | without holdings data? |
| 16:58 | chris | for all the special libraries |
| 16:58 | kados | ahh |
| 16:58 | chris | who dont know/care about marc |
| 16:58 | kados | right ... that makes sense |
| 16:59 | maybe we should start thinking about branching Koha | |
| 16:59 | marc and non-marc | |
| 16:59 | chris | i dont think we need to |
| 16:59 | kados | from a support perspective it's alot easier to get a non-marc library up than a marc library |
| 16:59 | chris | its all just interface :) |
| 17:00 | kados | true ... |
| 17:00 | chris | if you have marc=off set u should just not see marc |
| 17:00 | even tho its all still there in the background | |
| 17:00 | rach | the people who don't want marc are not "religious" about it in the way that people who do want it can be :-) |
| 17:00 | they just don't like being confused | |
| 17:00 | kados | hehe that's true |
| 17:01 | chris | i think 2.4 is our chance to tidy up the interfaces |
| 17:01 | kados | so maybe we need to think about two interfaces |
| 17:01 | too bad owen just left | |
| 17:01 | rach | and they like the idea that they *could* go to it if they got a zealot in their own org |
| 17:01 | kados | right ... good thinking |
| 17:01 | chris | it mostly works now, if you swithc marc off, you can pretty much not see it |
| 17:02 | its just making mostly=all :) | |
| 17:02 | kados | :-) |
| 17:02 | chris | exciting times |
| 17:02 | i think plucene will rock | |
| 17:02 | its hella fast | |
| 17:02 | kados | great ... I'm glad |
| 17:03 | do you think you can have a demo ready for tomorrow? | |
| 17:03 | chris | and with Text::Context |
| 17:03 | kados | really basic demo? |
| 17:03 | chris | ill have a go tonight |
| 17:03 | kados | sweet .. let me know if you want huge ammounts of data |
| 17:03 | chris | ill use hlt's |
| 17:04 | it will be a basic demo, just title and author | |
| 17:04 | cos that i can do easily | |
| 17:04 | kados | ok ... I've already got a collection of relevant MARC21 tags |
| 17:04 | chris | cool |
| 17:04 | kados | if you send me your indexer.pl I can see about getting it working with our marc_word table |
| 17:05 | chris | its very small :) |
| 17:05 | kados | yea? |
| 17:06 | chris | !/usr/bin/perl -w |
| 17:06 | ||
| 17:06 | use lib '/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules'; | |
| 17:06 | use strict; | |
| 17:06 | use Plucene::Simple; | |
| 17:06 | use C4::Context; | |
| 17:06 | my $dbh=C4::Context->dbh(); | |
| 17:06 | ||
| 17:06 | my $query="SELECT * FROM biblio"; | |
| 17:06 | my $sth=$dbh->prepare($query); | |
| 17:06 | ||
| 17:06 | ||
| 17:06 | $sth->execute(); | |
| 17:06 | my $index = Plucene::Simple->open( "/tmp/plucene" ); | |
| 17:06 | while (my $data=$sth->fetchrow_hashref()){ | |
| 17:06 | my %biblio; | |
| 17:06 | $biblio{'title'}=$data->{'title'}; | |
| 17:06 | $index->add( $data->{biblionumber} => \%biblio ); | |
| 17:06 | } | |
| 17:06 | $index->optimize; | |
| 17:06 | done :) | |
| 17:06 | kados | hehe |
| 17:06 | sweet | |
| 17:06 | chris | you make the %biblio contain more data |
| 17:06 | kados | right |
| 17:06 | chris | to index more tags basically |
| 17:07 | kados | yep ... I'll index by marc tag |
| 17:07 | chris | and search.cgi |
| 17:07 | #!/usr/bin/perl | |
| 17:07 | ||
| 17:07 | use strict; | |
| 17:07 | use Plucene::Simple; | |
| 17:07 | use CGI; | |
| 17:07 | ||
| 17:07 | my $cgi=new CGI; | |
| 17:07 | my $query=$cgi->param('query'); | |
| 17:07 | ||
| 17:07 | my (@ids, $error); | |
| 17:07 | if (!$query) { | |
| 17:07 | $error = "Your search term was empty"; | |
| 17:08 | } else { | |
| 17:08 | my $index = Plucene::Simple->open("/tmp/plucene/" ); | |
| 17:08 | @ids = $index->search($query); | |
| 17:08 | # print @ids; | |
| 17:08 | ||
| 17:08 | } | |
| 17:08 | so i could go ./search.cgi query=fish | |
| 17:08 | just to see if it was working | |
| 17:08 | ./search.cgi query=fish | |
| 17:08 | 17379 | |
| 17:09 | kados | right ... sweet |
| 17:09 | chris | the trick is making a nice results page |
| 17:09 | kados | so how big is the index file? |
| 17:09 | chris | i only indexed the katipo staff koha |
| 17:09 | (which is our document manager) | |
| 17:10 | kados | well ... for us, the bulk of a query is mysql geting lists of bibids (2-15 secs) |
| 17:10 | chris | 68k |
| 17:10 | theres only about 200 biblios tho, ill try on a bigger database after work | |
| 17:10 | kados | sweet |
| 17:10 | http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/02/19/plucene.html | |
| 17:10 | seen that article? | |
| 17:10 | chris | ye[ |
| 17:11 | thats what gave me the text::context idea | |
| 17:11 | imagine | |
| 17:11 | kados | that's the one I was using to build my indexer ... well what i as using |
| 17:11 | chris | http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]tail.pl?bib=93335 |
| 17:11 | with ur search terms highlighted | |
| 17:12 | we'd own :) | |
| 17:12 | kados | yep! |
| 20:52 | indexer still running on my 3000 biblios | |
| 20:52 | 300,000 that is ;-) | |
| 20:52 | i wonder if there is a way to update an index without rerunning it all the way through | |
| 20:53 | chris | bound to be |
| 20:54 | are u using plucene::simple? | |
| 20:54 | kados | though we may need to build our own engine |
| 20:54 | yep | |
| 20:54 | chris | yeah, its good for a proof of concept |
| 20:54 | kados | yep |
| 20:54 | chris | but to do all the fancy ranking and analysis we'll need to build our own |
| 20:55 | that'll be the fun bit :) | |
| 20:55 | kados | yea ... /me is really looking to that project |
| 20:55 | looking forward that is ;-) | |
| 20:55 | chris | how big is the index so far? |
| 20:55 | kados | it's really going to be great! |
| 20:56 | rach | have we got any klingon translaters :-) |
| 20:59 | chris | it has some neat stemming, but not for klingon i dont think, french, english, german and spanish |
| 20:59 | kados | chris: something strange is happening ... I've got a bunch of directories in tmp 4ZRJOqXUSm |
| 20:59 | stuff like that | |
| 20:59 | I assume that's the index categorizing things | |
| 20:59 | chris | where did you chose for ur index to live? |
| 20:59 | kados | /tmp |
| 21:00 | chris | id put it in /tmp/plucene or something .. those 4ZRJOqXUSm arent to do with plucene |
| 21:01 | kados | what are they? |
| 21:01 | scratch file? | |
| 21:01 | chris | i think mysql scratch files |
| 21:01 | or apache ones | |
| 21:01 | hmm or they may be plucene scratch files i guess | |
| 21:02 | my actual index files look like | |
| 21:02 | kados | du -cks -h |
| 21:02 | 3.0M . | |
| 21:02 | 3.0M total | |
| 21:02 | chris | _819.f1 _819.f3 _819.f5 _819.fdx |
| 21:02 | kados | yea ... mine too |
| 21:03 | chris | be interesting to see how big it ends up ... do you have any kinda counter going? |
| 21:04 | ie, do you know how far thru you are? | |
| 21:05 | kados | nope ... should have set that up |
| 21:06 | chris | hindsight is a wonderful thing :) |
| 21:06 | kados | :-) |
| 21:07 | well ... we could actually estimate it | |
| 21:07 | I've gotten three uninitialized values errors sofar | |
| 21:07 | so we could query for null entries | |
| 21:08 | chris | yep |
| 21:10 | kados | 44 rows where title is null (assuming that was what was causing theerroor) |
| 21:10 | chris | im guessing so |
| 21:11 | null titles | |
| 21:11 | that just seems wrong | |
| 21:11 | we should add on to the reports section a way to query the database for stuff like that | |
| 21:12 | so that the librarians can check their data for mentalness | |
| 21:12 | kados | yep |
| 21:12 | I think it was probably a layover from our last system | |
| 21:12 | (before spydus that is) | |
| 21:12 | chris | yep |
| 21:12 | kados | all the really strange database stuff is follett |
| 21:13 | chris | follett seem to do some weird things |
| 21:13 | kados | (which incidentally is the same system that Bristolville has now ) |
| 21:13 | yea | |
| 21:13 | chris | you know the more i think about plucene the more i like it |
| 21:13 | kados | :-) |
| 21:13 | chris | since it can effectively be added on |
| 21:14 | kados | I'm glad I'm not the only one |
| 21:14 | chris | without needing to bust things |
| 21:14 | kados | just think how many other things we can search on too |
| 21:14 | like adding any textual datbase | |
| 21:14 | chris | yep |
| 21:14 | kados | dmoz for instance |
| 21:14 | chris | yep |
| 21:14 | kados | we could easily create a liboogle |
| 21:14 | chris | :) |
| 21:15 | kados | or what I'd call the metavore |
| 21:15 | metavore.com | |
| 21:15 | chris | what i like |
| 21:15 | is that if we build an interface to it | |
| 21:15 | we allow libraries to design their own search | |
| 21:15 | or searches | |
| 21:15 | kados | yep |
| 21:16 | chris | say you have a collection your proud of |
| 21:16 | you can build an index of just that collection | |
| 21:16 | kados | you can give it priority |
| 21:16 | chris | and highlight it |
| 21:17 | i see greenstone are using lucene now | |
| 21:18 | kados | yep ... maybe we can nab some ideas from them |
| 21:18 | chris | itd be good to get a library using both |
| 21:19 | kados | I wish NPL had some reason to use greenstone ... I'd love to use it |
| 21:22 | our adwords: | |
| 21:22 | Keyword Status Clicks Impr. CTR Avg. CPC Cost Avg. Pos | |
| 21:22 | koha Normal 12 872 1.3% $0.05 $0.60 1.1 | |
| 21:22 | software library management Normal 10 494 2.0% $0.33 $3.28 7.8 | |
| 21:22 | library automation Normal 7 1,075 0.6% $0.25 $1.75 5.4 | |
| 21:22 | free library software Normal 7 580 1.2% $0.31 $2.13 7.6 | |
| 21:22 | open source library Normal 5 293 1.7% $0.13 $0.63 1.5 | |
| 21:22 | library automation software Normal 4 377 1.0% $0.30 $1.17 8.3 | |
| 21:22 | open source library software Normal 3 187 1.6% $0.07 $0.20 2.1 | |
| 21:25 | chris | interesting |
| 21:26 | kados | yea ... it's cost us $13 so far |
| 00:23 | du -cks -h | |
| 00:23 | 8.7M . | |
| 00:23 | 8.7M total | |
| 02:59 | Sylvain | hi |
| 03:01 | hdl | hi |
| 03:03 | jean | Hi |
| 03:12 | Sylvain | does someone know if debts are managed ? When I create a new borrower, it doesn't create a debt with the amount it owes ... |
| 03:13 | s/it/he | |
| 03:22 | hdl | It is managed, but not automatically. |
| 03:23 | Sylvain | you have to create an 'accountline' every time you create a user ? |
| 03:24 | hdl | looks like :( |
| 03:24 | Sylvain | erg, bad :( |
| 03:24 | hdl | Thought it would be automatic. |
| 03:24 | Sylvain | yes, when you define the borrower categories, you've to set an enrolment fee, isn't it used ? |
| 03:25 | hdl | But To my mind, argentin folks may have worked on taht. |
| 03:25 | No It is not used :( | |
| 03:25 | Or we should take a closer look. | |
| 03:31 | Sylvain | http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]ow_bug.cgi?id=225 |
| 03:31 | hdl | I have. Doesn't look like a credit line is added. |
| 03:38 | Sylvain | it seems that there are also problem with the expiry dates of new users and things like that ... |
| 03:38 | the user management seems to need some improvements ... | |
| 04:05 | when you create a user, it doesn't save it's enrollement date, strange ... | |
| 04:08 | hdl | yes. |
| 04:11 | Sylvain | but how do libraries manage these problems ? It seems to be big problems, no ? |
| 04:14 | hdl | quite. |
| 10:32 | hi owen | |
| 10:32 | owen | hi |
| 10:59 | hdl | kados, can you provide me with more information about the marc record leader, some URL ressources ? |
| 11:20 | kados | hdl: sure ... hang on a second |
| 11:20 | hdl: do you mean MARC21? | |
| 11:20 | hdl: here's the synopsis: | |
| 11:20 | http://www.loc.gov/marc/biblio[…]hic/ecbdldrd.html | |
| 11:21 | hdl: are you working on the Z39.50 server? | |
| 11:37 | hdl | kados : yes, I am trying to get the results from the Z39.50 server. |
| 11:38 | kados : For the moment, this is the only result I get : | |
| 11:38 | 5990/39 : KOHATEST : 66 records found, retrieving them (max 80) | |
| 11:38 | 5988/39 : LYON3 : 65 records found, retrieving them (max 80) | |
| 11:38 | 5990/39 : KOHATEST : localhost:9999 records retrieved 66 SPEED: 6 | |
| 11:38 | 5990/39 : localhost:9999 search done. | |
| 11:38 | ||
| 11:39 | So : it gets the results but never diplay them. | |
| 11:43 | kados, btw do you have some more Information about items lost | |
| 11:47 | kados | items lost? |
| 11:47 | hdl: about the Z39.50: did you try populating the leader with the values I gave you last time? | |
| 11:48 | here is the 'release notes' for the Z39.50 server: | |
| 11:48 | http://lists.katipo.co.nz/publ[…]/2004/002694.html | |
| 11:50 | hdl | Yes, I tried to but that doesnot fix the problem. |
| 11:54 | But how did you build the leader ? |
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