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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 18:54 | genji | hey all. |
| 18:57 | rach | hi |
| 18:58 | genji | ah, not the person i wanted to talk to, but happy that someone is talking none the less. A good day, rach? |
| 18:58 | rach | um a bit mental today to be honest |
| 18:59 | genji | Mental? |
| 18:59 | rach | lots of stuff happening |
| 18:59 | our slightly mad neighbour was over earlier chewing my ear about their shed | |
| 19:00 | which isn't really my optimim way to start the day | |
| 19:01 | genji | oh, EVERYONE works from home? |
| 19:01 | rach | yep |
| 19:01 | me included | |
| 19:01 | genji | Cool. |
| 19:01 | rach | http://pure-guava.org.nz/gallery/rennovation |
| 19:01 | and my home is being renovated at the same time | |
| 19:01 | which has elements of being a bit trying | |
| 19:03 | genji | Impressive, you are, yes. |
| 19:04 | rach | hence the "mental" today :-) |
| 19:06 | rosa | How did you withstand the gale, rach? |
| 19:06 | rach | was ok actually rosa |
| 19:06 | the board didn't blow in which was good | |
| 19:06 | wasn't too bad here | |
| 19:06 | was worse driving down the road | |
| 19:06 | rosa | that was a relief |
| 19:07 | rach | yeah driving down was really bad, so I was a bit worried |
| 19:16 | rosa | Koha will be 5 years old in January |
| 19:20 | genji | yeah.. congrats. |
| 04:04 | hey rach, how do i get a job like Katipo's work at home programming jobs? | |
| 04:06 | rach | umm you send me a cv is a good start :-) |
| 04:07 | and tell me why you'd be a great asset to our team | |
| 04:07 | and what you want to do, and why working for us would be good for you, and good for us | |
| 04:08 | and then I see if we have enough work for another person | |
| 04:08 | basically | |
| 04:08 | you've actually done, what you can do, what you want to do | |
| 04:09 | so if you're self tought that might be fine | |
| 04:09 | um I should add, that living in Wellington Region tends to be a requirement | |
| 04:10 | as we do have actual in person meetings as well as online ones | |
| 04:10 | and you'd miss out if you couldnt' make them | |
| 04:10 | genji | So, living in Palmerston north is not that good? |
| 04:10 | rach | it's not great - but better than Iowa :-) |
| 04:10 | genji | Why would anyone live in Iowa.. |
| 04:11 | rach | or maybe Idaho |
| 04:11 | palmerston north might be ok | |
| 04:11 | depends on what you want to do | |
| 04:12 | and how good at it your are :-) | |
| 04:13 | cool - send me something in the new year | |
| 04:14 | so unless you're handy with a ham there is no hurry :-) | |
| 04:14 | genji | Will do. Think ill pick up a Web design course at open polytechnic. |
| 04:14 | rach | cool |
| 04:15 | they are a bit fishy after eating sushi | |
| 04:15 | genji | its the only thing that comes close to web work, and programming in perl. seems the standard language is Visual basic or .NET. |
| 04:52 | hiya paul! | |
| 04:52 | you active? got a puzzle for ya. | |
| 07:00 | paul | genji, if you are not sleeping, i'm here |
| 07:05 | genji | im here. |
| 07:05 | you still here? | |
| 07:05 | paul | yep |
| 07:07 | genji | okay. deleted EVERYTHING of koha. mysql data and perl stuff. reinstalled. installed the provided marc structure. etc. imported my database, and still subjects won't search in search.marc. Only in catalogue-home.pl. |
| 07:07 | paul | maybe the provided MARC21 structure is wrong |
| 07:07 | may i have test your installation ? | |
| 07:08 | genji | nope. checked the links and bibliosubject.subject is mapped to 500, General Topical description.. sure. |
| 07:08 | 222.152.212.197 .. default username and password. | |
| 07:09 | thats http://222.152.212.197 | |
| 07:10 | logged in? | |
| 07:12 | paul | sorry, was on phone |
| 07:12 | i'm back | |
| 07:13 | msg genji ??? what are username & password ? | |
| 07:13 | oups... | |
| 07:44 | don't you think ? | |
| 07:45 | genji | yup. okay, this is for the log. |
| 07:45 | paul | could you summarize here ? |
| 07:45 | genji | oh, you've got the marc code entering biblioitems in newbiblioitem right? |
| 07:45 | paul | (i'll copy sub newbiblioitem after) |
| 07:45 | yep | |
| 07:46 | genji | hey, i remember submitting this bug to koha-devel. |
| 07:46 | paul | do you remember when ? |
| 07:47 | genji | 3/12/2004 |
| 07:47 | probably didn't explain myself properly. | |
| 07:47 | paul | yes i just saw it |
| 07:47 | note that your 1st mail was really too short to be understood (at least by me ;-) ) | |
| 07:50 | genji | Okay, for the log. BUG: Koha's saveitem.pl erases subjects. Explanation: C4::Biblio::newbiblioitem line 2091 to 2096 uses modsubject to save $biblioitem->{'subjectheadings'}. Of course, this is a null value. due to the nature of modsubject (it deletes all subjects then inserts) it erases subjects. Fustrating after you've spent 10 minutes entering in subjects into savebiblio.pl only to have it erased. FIX: Delete lines 2091 to 2096. |
| 07:50 | hows that? | |
| 07:51 | paul | sounds OK for me. |
| 07:51 | but won't solve the other problem : | |
| 07:51 | genji | other problem. now that i know it, i can do it. |
| 07:51 | paul | the subjects are not solved properly in the MARC biblio |
| 07:51 | ok, i'll let you dig. | |
| 07:51 | i'll commit this 1st bugfix soon | |
| 07:52 | sub newbiblioitem { | |
| 07:52 | my ($biblioitem) = @_; | |
| 07:52 | my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh; | |
| 07:52 | my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem ); | |
| 07:52 | return ($bibitemnum); | |
| 07:52 | ] | |
| 07:52 | (oups...) | |
| 07:52 | genji | wheres the marc code gone? |
| 07:52 | paul | s/]/} |
| 07:52 | sub MARCkoha2marc | |
| 07:52 | line 884 | |
| 07:53 | genji | eh, no. |
| 07:53 | paul | ? |
| 07:53 | genji | my code here has newbiblioitem with marc saving as well. |
| 07:54 | line 2097 to 2103? | |
| 07:54 | paul | quoted too no ? |
| 07:54 | genji | you didn't quote. |
| 07:55 | paul | ??? |
| 07:55 | genji | sub newbiblioitem { |
| 07:55 | my ($biblioitem) = @_; | |
| 07:55 | my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh; | |
| 07:55 | my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem ); | |
| 07:55 | my $MARCbiblio = | |
| 07:55 | MARCkoha2marcBiblio( $dbh, 0, $bibitemnum ) | |
| 07:55 | ; # the 0 means "do NOT retrieve biblio, only biblioitem, in the MARC record | |
| 07:55 | my $bibid = | |
| 07:55 | &MARCfind_MARCbibid_from_oldbiblionumber( $dbh, | |
| 07:55 | $biblioitem->{biblionumber} ); | |
| 07:55 | &MARCaddbiblio( $dbh, $MARCbiblio, $biblioitem->{biblionumber}, '',$bibid ); | |
| 07:55 | return ($bibitemnum); | |
| 07:55 | } | |
| 07:56 | that does it right? | |
| 07:56 | paul | mmm... i thought no. |
| 07:56 | but after reading, finally, yes | |
| 07:56 | i'm really a good programmer ;-) | |
| 07:56 | genji | you have old biblio.pm? |
| 07:56 | paul | sub MARCaddbiblio won't really create a new biblio when bibid is not null. |
| 07:57 | kudos to me, i should have do that for such cases :-D | |
| 07:57 | old Bilbio.pm ? which date ? | |
| 07:58 | genji | you don't have it in yours? |
| 07:59 | paul | yes i have. |
| 07:59 | genji | so.. why didn't you quote it? the code works... and taking it out makes it not work. |
| 08:01 | paul | ??? |
| 08:02 | genji | hmmm.. okay. when you quoted newbiblioitem .. you did not quote the marc adding of biblioitem part. |
| 08:06 | anyway, new topic. we can put a marc adding of subject at modsubject.. but, how do you delete marc fields? like, i want to erase the marc subjects of a specific biblionumber? | |
| 08:06 | paul | i have to leave for lunch |
| 08:06 | genji | since thats the behavior of modsubject.. k. seeya soon? |
| 08:06 | paul | 1H30 |
| 08:06 | genji | ccool. will be here. |
| 08:07 | paul | but a phone meeting in 2 hours |
| 08:07 | i let the channel ON anyway | |
| 08:07 | genji | think all i will need from you to finish this bit is 30 minutes. |
| 09:08 | paul_lunc | genji, i'm back |
| 09:08 | genji | cool. okay. question. how do you delete a marc field from a biblio? |
| 09:09 | paul_lunc | in mySQL or in MARC::Record ? |
| 09:09 | genji | modsubject deletes all subject entries for a given biblio, before inserting new ones. |
| 09:09 | the marc koha 2 marc onefield only adds fields, doesn't replace. | |
| 09:10 | any ideas? | |
| 09:12 | paul | i'm afraid the only solution is delete > create again |
| 09:13 | the whole biblio | |
| 09:13 | genji | using modbiblio... you totally sure? |
| 09:13 | paul | because it's almost impossible to find the right subject in subject entries |
| 09:13 | probably yes. | |
| 09:13 | I think we should store everything in non-MARC, then call MARC modif (that is a delete / create) | |
| 09:14 | I trieds, 2 years ago, to create an "intelligen" MARCmodbibli | |
| 09:14 | but it's almost impossible to do. | |
| 09:14 | genji | there isn't a way to delete subjects of one biblio entry only? |
| 09:14 | paul | so many tests that it would cost more CPU to to than a delete / create |
| 09:15 | iirc no. | |
| 09:17 | genji | wait.. what about MARCdelsubfield? |
| 09:17 | isn't subjects a subfield of biblio? | |
| 09:18 | paul | unused, should be removed. |
| 09:19 | & buggy imho, because it doesn't deal with marc_word (& it should) | |
| 09:19 | genji | okay, where is the MARC subjects table stored? |
| 09:20 | paul | like all other MARC datas : |
| 09:20 | everything is in marc_subfield_table | |
| 09:20 | & words in marc_word | |
| 09:20 | genji | k. can't MARCdelsubfield be made operational, so we can delete subjects of a specific biblio? |
| 09:22 | paul | the question being : how to be sure you have found the right MARC data ? |
| 09:23 | because repeatable fields can be repeated BUT are not "ordered" | |
| 09:23 | so, you could only use the subjectvalue itself. | |
| 09:23 | and that would not be very sure | |
| 09:26 | genji | is there any chance that a client could be searching for your book, at the same time as you are clicking modify, and the record is deleted when they look? or is the whole delete and recreate process fast? |
| 09:27 | paul | this is possible in theory |
| 09:27 | BUT | |
| 09:27 | in libraries, biblios are rarely modified. | |
| 09:27 | so the risk is very, very, very, very low | |
| 09:27 | so, it's ignored | |
| 09:28 | genji | right. whats the time like, starting the delete and completing the new biblio? a second? |
| 09:29 | paul | when I bulkmarcimport lots of notices, I get a 6biblios/seconds. |
| 09:29 | and that's when disk/CPU is heavily used !!!! | |
| 09:29 | genji | thats deleting and adding? |
| 09:29 | paul | otherwise, imho, it's 10-25ms |
| 09:29 | no, just adding. | |
| 09:29 | but as fast as possible. | |
| 09:30 | genji | ah. how long does it take to delete a marc biblio, then? |
| 09:30 | paul | i just checked that everything is correctly indexed |
| 09:33 | genji | is there any way that the marc biblio could be different to the old db table, that the marc biblio data is newer? Any way to save the old marc biblio data, and put it in anew, or is every page that modifies a book, modifying the old db at the same time? |
| 09:33 | paul | every page that modifies a book modify "both" DB |
| 09:34 | genji | so, why do we have a marc db then? faster searching? |
| 09:34 | paul | no, more complete storing |
| 09:35 | MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB | |
| 09:35 | even worst : Koha is "multi marc" compliant, so even more impossible | |
| 09:35 | genji | ahh... any datas in marc biblio not storable in old db biblio? |
| 09:35 | paul | yes, a lot ! |
| 09:36 | genji | so, isn't deleting the marc biblio, and making it anew from old db just to delete subjects and insert new ones, stupid? all that lost data? |
| 09:37 | paul | no, because if MARC=OFF, all that is in MARC-DB comes from non-MARC DB |
| 09:37 | it's incomplete MARC, but it's MARC anyway ! | |
| 09:37 | changing MARc=OFF => MARC=ON => MARC=OFF is stupid ! | |
| 09:38 | because in this case, you will loose datas, you're right | |
| 09:38 | genji | ahh.. but what if MARC is ON and they want to delete subjects? |
| 09:39 | paul | they edit the MARC biblio, |
| 09:39 | and when saved, it takes care of all non MARC datas! | |
| 09:40 | genji | okay. but how do they delete the subject subfield of a specific biblio? |
| 09:40 | paul | yes (unless there's a bug here too ;-) ) |
| 09:42 | genji | ?! i mean how? Youve said that deleting subjects from marc biblio is impossible, yet someone can edit the marc biblio and do so? |
| 09:43 | paul | in MARC editor, Koha completly ignore what the fields "means". Koha just know that the user want to set up a 650$a field with value "reincarnation" |
| 09:43 | anything can be deleted/modified | |
| 09:43 | but without knowing "what it means" | |
| 09:43 | it's the MARCmarc2koha that "translate" values into non-MARC (=meaningful) values | |
| 09:43 | genji | can't the link be used, backtracked to the subfield? |
| 09:44 | paul | no, |
| 09:44 | for instance, when a biblio is modified, it's in fact deleted / created again | |
| 09:44 | because many "meaningful" values are not linked | |
| 09:44 | and can't due to MARC specifications | |
| 09:45 | genji | but.. when a biblio is modified.. doesn't it lose its extra data from marc? |
| 09:45 | paul | (we could track, but with non standard MARC fields) |
| 09:45 | ?? | |
| 09:45 | genji | okay. MARC=ON |
| 09:45 | paul | when MARC=ON, |
| 09:45 | genji | User has lots of extra data in marc biblio |
| 09:45 | paul | everything is stored in MARC |
| 09:45 | genji | user modifies marc biblio |
| 09:45 | paul | all what can be "understand" is stored in non MARC |
| 09:46 | yes, and ? | |
| 09:46 | genji | marc biblio is deleted, and made new. |
| 09:46 | paul | right |
| 09:46 | genji | extra data is deleted? |
| 09:46 | paul | which extra data ? there is no |
| 09:47 | a general question : i'll have to leave soon | |
| 09:47 | (phone meeting in 15mnà | |
| 09:47 | i can release a 2.2.0RC4 now | |
| 09:47 | with a lot of bugfixes | |
| 09:47 | genji | MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB |
| 09:47 | correct? | |
| 09:48 | paul | do you think i have to wait for your bugfix for subject linkings ? |
| 09:48 | (correct) | |
| 09:48 | for example, notes (300 in UNIMARC) | |
| 09:48 | there are >20 differents notes | |
| 09:48 | notes on author, | |
| 09:48 | on translation | |
| 09:48 | genji | think so. its a showstopper for some libraries... not being able to search for subjects. |
| 09:48 | paul | on aterial |
| 09:48 | ... | |
| 09:49 | (that won't mean a 2.2.0RC5 won't be made, I could add the "known bug" to release notes) | |
| 09:49 | genji | okay.. so, what happens to this unstorable data when marc biblio is deleted and made anew? |
| 09:49 | paul | (the question is do you think you could fix the problem in a day or 2 ?) |
| 09:50 | it's in the MARC editor, so it's stored again in MARC-DB | |
| 09:50 | genji | ahh.. apache has it stored as params? |
| 09:50 | paul | no, but when MARC=ON, adding a biblio open a "MARC editor", not addbiblio-nomarc.pl |
| 09:51 | and all the MARC biblio is here | |
| 09:51 | genji | hmm.. okay. |
| 09:52 | hey, i could write in script to carry over bibliosubject to marc, skipping through the database, but without that subject deleting thing, i can't build it into modsubject. | |
| 09:53 | paul | imho, the best solution would be to store everything into non-MARC DB |
| 09:53 | then call MARCkoha2marc | |
| 09:53 | to build a complete MARC::Record | |
| 09:53 | the | |
| 09:53 | (then) | |
| 09:53 | call MARCmodbiblio($dbh,$record...) | |
| 09:53 | to store it correctly in the MARC-DB | |
| 09:54 | genji | what happens to the unstorable-in-non-marc data thats in the MARC-DB that MARCmodbiblio deletes? |
| 09:55 | paul | it doesn't exists |
| 09:55 | as MARC=OFF !!! | |
| 09:55 | should only exist when MARC=ON | |
| 09:55 | but if MARc=ON, we NEVER arrive here ! | |
| 09:55 | genji | ah.. right. |
| 09:55 | modsubject isn't used in non-marc? | |
| 09:56 | err | |
| 09:56 | wrong way. | |
| 09:56 | modsubject isn't used in marc=on? | |
| 10:03 | if modsubject isn't used when marc=on (i can make a check for the parameter just in case) then i can do the fix, completed in 24 hours, plus routine to put in upgradedatabase. okay? | |
| 10:03 | gotta sleep... so back in 8 hours. | |
| 10:04 | paul | genji : ok, send me the fix when available |
| 10:05 | GenjiBed | how do you check a value of a parameter? i.e check that marc is infact off? |
| 10:06 | paul | C4::Context->systempreference(MARC) |
| 10:06 | or something like that | |
| 10:06 | GenjiBed | cool. night. |
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