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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 14:01 | paul | hi logbot ;-) |
| 14:02 | matias-UN | hi people... |
| 14:03 | paul | hi matias |
| 14:03 | matias-UN | paul..how can I change my nickname...? |
| 14:03 | I didnŽt know there was a string limit... | |
| 14:04 | chris | /nick newnickname |
| 14:04 | without the space at the front | |
| 14:04 | UNLP-Phys | ok...thanks... |
| 14:05 | rach | Matias - it might have been easier to "say" your name :-) |
| 14:07 | UNLP-Phys | yeah...I was thinking that... |
| 14:07 | rach | :-) |
| 14:07 | but it's good to know where you are from | |
| 14:07 | we might get a few more straglers - but shall we start with introductions | |
| 14:07 | chris | sounds good |
| 14:07 | rach | Chris you're at the top of the list :-) |
| 14:08 | paul | ladies & gentlemen, let me introduce the guy that commited that so nice label printing module in 2.1.2 !!! |
| 14:08 | it's matias | |
| 14:08 | rach | Great work Matias |
| 14:09 | matias | ja ja...ok...thank you so much...!!! |
| 14:09 | rosa | rosa is Rosalie Blake, librarian from Horowhenua, NZ |
| 14:10 | matias | thanks Paul or that... |
| 14:10 | for that | |
| 14:10 | ;-) | |
| 14:11 | JYL | JYL is a newbie interested in documentation and translation, testing 2.0 & 2.2 |
| 14:11 | paul | mmm... i tried to announce 2.1.2 public release on koha mailing list : |
| 14:11 | <kohalists.katipo.co.nz>: Name service error for name=lists.katipo.co.nz |
|
| 14:11 | type=MX: Host not found, try again | |
| 14:11 | slef | Apologies first of all. Because I thought this meeting was at 1800Z, I'm elsewhere too now (1900Z) |
| 14:11 | rach | paul we're having trouble this morning |
| 14:11 | one of our servers got swapped last night | |
| 14:11 | paul | don't forget to say you're french JYL :D |
| 14:11 | sad-hu_ | hello, sad-hu is Matti Lassila, I did the finnish translation |
| 14:11 | JYL | YYYEEEAAHHH !! Bravo |
| 14:12 | rach | nice to meet you Matti |
| 14:12 | paul | hello matti. |
| 14:12 | what I find interesting with this meeting is that there are more and more europeans. | |
| 14:12 | rach | and JYL - which in my head I'm pronouncing Jill by the way |
| 14:13 | JYL | sounds good for me rach ! |
| 14:13 | paul | JYL means Jean Yves Lemaire |
| 14:13 | rach | Si is Simon Blake who is the one who was playing with the server late last night, so he's still asleep |
| 14:13 | despite my best efforts to wake him up | |
| 14:14 | skoba looks to be away | |
| 14:14 | tim are you about? | |
| 14:14 | paul | another ppl speaking french ;-) |
| 14:14 | tim | I'm here. |
| 14:15 | rach | can you do your intro :-) |
| 14:15 | owen | kados is Joshua Ferraro, also from the Nelsonville Public Library, but it doesn't look like he's around |
| 14:15 | matias | I think IŽm gonna have to learn some french... ;-) |
| 14:15 | rach | me to |
| 14:15 | JYL | It shouldn't be a problem ! |
| 14:16 | matias | ja ja...by the way...sorry my english..IŽll improve it...I promise... :-) |
| 14:16 | tim | would like to help, but don't know enough yet. |
| 14:16 | chris | ur from west liberty public library right tim? |
| 14:16 | skoba | sorry, i wont't be here that night cos' of family afair (i say hello to all (poor english) but i log the chan tonight) bonne nuit les enfants...... |
| 14:16 | rach | you said something very helpful the other day = we always need newbies to point out where we've been captured by our own cleverness :-) |
| 14:17 | tim | Yes I am chris |
| 14:17 | paul | skoba => logbot is here for irc logging : www.koha.org/irc |
| 14:18 | rach | cool |
| 14:18 | chris | i think that is everyone? |
| 14:18 | rach | Yep we have a short agenda |
| 14:19 | First shall we do the volunteer "positions" ? | |
| 14:20 | The first is Kaitiaki, which has been done well by Pat Eyler over the last few years, but he's got busy with work | |
| 14:20 | slef | Small point of order: if the meeting details change, can it be a new post rather than a reply, please? |
| 14:20 | rach | and I think his work policy might have changed, so hasn't been able to keep it up unfortunatly |
| 14:20 | AH yes certainly - sorry slef | |
| 14:21 | How long do you have? | |
| 14:21 | So is there anyone else who would like to be the Kaitiaki? | |
| 14:22 | paul | yes : you ;-) |
| 14:22 | rach | sorry - anyone else other than me :-) |
| 14:23 | does anyone object to it being me? | |
| 14:23 | JYL | NO ! |
| 14:23 | owen | If only we had a tiara for rach... |
| 14:23 | rach | and a wand :-) |
| 14:23 | russ | owen, i'll sort one out for her today |
| 14:23 | JYL | congratulations rach ! |
| 14:24 | paul | kudos rach |
| 14:24 | how do you say kaitiaki for a girl in maori ? | |
| 14:24 | rach | cool - thanks :-) |
| 14:24 | chris | the same paul |
| 14:24 | paul | Rachel Hamilton, Koha kaitiaki. Sounds nice... |
| 14:25 | rach | which brings us quickly to the other volunteer position I think we need |
| 14:25 | paul | yep |
| 14:25 | rach | which is website editor |
| 14:26 | who doesn't need to do HTML if they don't want | |
| 14:26 | paul | slef are you still here ? if yes, it may be better to speak 1st of release managers/maintainers ? |
| 14:26 | rach | ah ok sure paul |
| 14:27 | all righty - 2.2 release date and maintainer.... | |
| 14:27 | paul | I think I must write some things here & now |
| 14:27 | slef | paul: I'm here, but intermittently able to look at the screen. |
| 14:27 | paul | ok slef |
| 14:27 | the 2.2 status : | |
| 14:27 | i've released a 2.1.2 today. | |
| 14:28 | it's still in unstable branch. I've something like 15 bugs to squash. | |
| 14:28 | (coming from 3days tests with Ecole des Mines de Nantes) | |
| 14:28 | none of them are blocking, but most are really annoying. | |
| 14:28 | chris | right |
| 14:28 | paul | the barcode generator is included. |
| 14:28 | slef | Should I be marking 2.0 bugs FIXED, or reversioning 2.2 so you can check they're fixed for that too? |
| 14:28 | paul | in 2.1.2 |
| 14:29 | slef | Is that botf or another one? |
| 14:29 | paul | slef : my problem with what you do with the 2.0 branch is that i've no mail like with sourceforge cvs. |
| 14:29 | slef | barcodes on the fly helper |
| 14:29 | paul | so i can't merge your 2.0 bugfixes on 2.2 branch :-( |
| 14:30 | owen | I think many of us don't know what's going on with 2.0 |
| 14:30 | paul | it generates nice PDF page with barcodes on it. |
| 14:30 | slef | I can render 2.0 bugfixes in whatever format you want, but no-one has asked for anything until now. |
| 14:30 | paul | with continuous barcode, or selected inventory. |
| 14:30 | matias | :-) |
| 14:30 | slef | So don't you go all :-( here now over stuff you never said before. |
| 14:31 | owen | Are you signed up for the Koha-CVS list slef? |
| 14:31 | paul | i hadn't the time to ask slef. I admit. |
| 14:31 | rosa | sounds cool to me, slef |
| 14:31 | slef | paul: what does the barcode printer require? |
| 14:31 | paul | yes owen, but slef uses arch, not the sourceforge cvs. |
| 14:31 | it's in 2.1.2 release notes ;-) | |
| 14:31 | PDF::API2 | |
| 14:31 | slef | owen: I didn't know it existed. |
| 14:32 | paul | wow ! you didn't know this list exists. Too bad we never spoke of it before. |
| 14:32 | slef | paul: is that in distributions? |
| 14:32 | paul | distributions ? |
| 14:32 | owen | https://lists.sourceforge.net/[…]listinfo/koha-cvs |
| 14:32 | slef | like packaged for debian, fedora, mandrake and so on? |
| 14:33 | paul | i don't know. |
| 14:33 | maybe, it's a very common perlpackage | |
| 14:34 | PDF::API2 is not on mandrake distrib. | |
| 14:34 | can't answer for others distros | |
| 14:34 | slef | owen: is there a version without the diffs? |
| 14:34 | paul | however, the 2.2 status : |
| 14:34 | the 2.1.2 will probably be the last one in unstable tree | |
| 14:34 | the next one should be a 2.2RC1, in stable tree. | |
| 14:35 | it's really useable, & I think I was too slow to release official 2.0.0 | |
| 14:35 | in France, many libraries were waiting for 2.0.0 even when 2.0.0RC4 was released. | |
| 14:35 | owen | slef: a version of the koha-cvs list? Not that I know of. |
| 14:36 | paul | So I think it's better to release soon, & produce bugfixes more often. |
| 14:36 | chris | slef: its in debian, at least in testing and unstable it is |
| 14:36 | paul | I need 3 things to rlease 2.2 : |
| 14:36 | * LDAP connections fixes. It'll take care of this | |
| 14:37 | slef | What will? |
| 14:37 | paul | (i'll, sorry) |
| 14:37 | * some changes in plugins to find editor from ISBN & collection selector | |
| 14:38 | * MARC21 SQL files. | |
| 14:38 | this last * needs help from MARC21 libraries. | |
| 14:38 | in the 2.2 installer, the user can select various files for installing, to have a well working DB | |
| 14:38 | rach | Do we have any MARC21 libraries here now? |
| 14:38 | paul | something like (for france) |
| 14:38 | * UNIMARC default biblio structure | |
| 14:39 | * UNIMARC parameters for multimedia framework | |
| 14:39 | * systmeprefs in french & for france | |
| 14:39 | * UNIMARC default authority structure | |
| 14:39 | * unimarc parameters for various authorities types (like NC for Common Names, NP for Propers Names)... | |
| 14:40 | & complete "sample DB" | |
| 14:40 | so what i'm hoping is a library that could help building nice MARC21 files. | |
| 14:41 | slef | Are the tables the same as 2.0? |
| 14:41 | paul | not exactly |
| 14:41 | slef | Is there a guide to differences? |
| 14:41 | paul | in MARC biblio, the difference is in the "framework" column |
| 14:41 | otherwise, it's the same DB for MARC | |
| 14:42 | for MARC authorities, it's a copy of MARC biblio with frameworks | |
| 14:42 | there are no technical description of the diffs | |
| 14:42 | i'll modify the DB structure schema ASAP | |
| 14:43 | are those minor explanations enough ? | |
| 14:44 | rach | Slef you think one of your customers might be able to help, if Paul does a good guide so that the data can be migrated from 2.0 to 2.2? |
| 14:44 | slef | Enough to see that you need a 2.2 testbed library to design this, or a really safe upgrade script. |
| 14:44 | rach | yes that sounds fair |
| 14:44 | paul | the updater tool is untested, but the updatedatabase script has been updated on every DB change |
| 14:45 | rach | Slef and Paul can you work that out between yourselves, when you've both got a bit more time ? |
| 14:45 | paul | ok. |
| 14:46 | rach | excellent :-) |
| 14:46 | yup :-) | |
| 14:46 | paul | (so i'll be a little less here in the next 3-4 weeks) |
| 14:46 | matias | congratulations :-) |
| 14:47 | rach | so best to get things done before hand? |
| 14:47 | paul | (thanks. It's my 3rd little guy...) |
| 14:47 | ??? rach ??? | |
| 14:47 | JYL | I'm volunteer to test the updater script Paul ! |
| 14:47 | paul | ok, thanks JYL |
| 14:47 | i'll let you know how to do this from a 2.0.0 install | |
| 14:48 | (it's written in 2.1.2 release notes in fact ;-) ) | |
| 14:48 | (iirc) | |
| 14:48 | JYL | Can only test it on my Sarge Debian install... |
| 14:48 | paul | i'll have to migrate my customers too, so i'll have to do some tests too |
| 14:48 | the question now is : | |
| 14:49 | * what do we do with the 2.0 branch ? | |
| 14:49 | * when do we swap to 2.2 release manager to 2.2 release maintainer ? | |
| 14:49 | * who will be 2.2 release maintainer ? | |
| 14:49 | slef, any opinion on 1st questiion ? | |
| 14:50 | rach | Sleft how hard has it been to be 2.0 release maintainer? |
| 14:50 | paul | I already have said to rachel I was suggestion to be 2.2 release maintainer & let emiliano & argentina team (matias) be 2.4 release manager. |
| 14:51 | s/suggestion/suggesting | |
| 14:51 | matias | I think... |
| 14:52 | we are open to contribute with all that weŽve made... | |
| 14:52 | of course, all those things that people like... :-) | |
| 14:53 | paul | emiliano & I had a long IRC discussion a few days ago. |
| 14:53 | I think he is aware that being release manager means commiting code, but also a lot of other things : | |
| 14:53 | * accepting/rejecting new ideas | |
| 14:53 | * building & testing releases | |
| 14:53 | matias | yeah...thatŽs why IŽm telling you this... |
| 14:54 | paul | * dealing with multi-marc & multi-countries questions. |
| 14:54 | slef | paul: I would continue 2.0.x until 2.2.1 |
| 14:54 | matias | I think it would be a better idea to propose another release manager.. |
| 14:54 | emiliano | Hi everybody |
| 14:54 | paul | welcome emiliano. |
| 14:55 | we were speaking of 2.4 release manager. | |
| 14:55 | matias | hello... |
| 14:55 | slef | rach: fairly difficult until the arch move, then fairly easy, but certain 2.2 developers don't answer bugs emails. |
| 14:55 | paul | I was suggesting you as 2.4 release manager. |
| 14:55 | matias seems not so happy with this idea | |
| 14:55 | am i missing something ? | |
| 14:56 | matias | no...I am happy... :) |
| 14:56 | paul | so why do you think it would be a better idea to propose someone else ? |
| 14:58 | matias | as I was saying... |
| 14:58 | we are open to contribute... | |
| 14:58 | we are open to work on bug fixing... | |
| 14:59 | and to contribute with new ideas... | |
| 14:59 | emiliano | I think Matias wants to say that being release manager |
| 14:59 | is a very responsable position | |
| 15:00 | matias | exactly... ;-) |
| 15:00 | emiliano | and we have some requeriments |
| 15:00 | to accomplish | |
| 15:00 | very urgent | |
| 15:00 | chris | the release manager doesnt have to be a developer |
| 15:01 | if anyone else wants to volunteer :-) | |
| 15:01 | emiliano | Paul? |
| 15:01 | paul | mmm... |
| 15:01 | I can't do everything | |
| 15:02 | rach | he can't be 2.2 maintainer *and* 2.4 release manager |
| 15:02 | paul | i'm ok to be release manager OR rleease maintainer |
| 15:02 | emiliano | we can help you |
| 15:02 | paul | right ;-) |
| 15:02 | matias | yeap |
| 15:02 | paul | what do you mean exactly by "help" ? |
| 15:02 | slef | I would volunteer, but I think that 2.0 should continue into 2.2's early life and I now think that other developers are cross with me about the arch move (but didn't say before). |
| 15:02 | emiliano | I mean that we can distribute the tasks |
| 15:03 | chris | yep, i agree that 2.0 should continue for a while self |
| 15:03 | slef even :) | |
| 15:03 | rach | yes I agree too :-) |
| 15:03 | paul | emiliano, I think that the good question is the timing one. |
| 15:04 | for me, the 2.4 official release does not have to be released urgently | |
| 15:04 | emiliano | ok I agree |
| 15:04 | we need it urgently | |
| 15:04 | but could start | |
| 15:04 | paul | so, the main problem is that you will be release manager for the 1st time. |
| 15:05 | and that may be frightening no ? | |
| 15:05 | emiliano | jajaja |
| 15:05 | could be | |
| 15:05 | matias | :-) |
| 15:05 | emiliano | but the real question is |
| 15:05 | what is 2.4? | |
| 15:05 | what must include | |
| 15:05 | paul | so, a good news : before being release manager for Koha, i never had beenr release manager ;-) |
| 15:06 | yes, you're right. But that's a question we have 2 months or something like that to define. | |
| 15:06 | owen | How about this: emiliano and his team are named release managers, and ask Paul for help when they have questions? |
| 15:06 | chris | emiliano: yep that is the question, but thats something we can all discuss i think ur roadmap is a good start |
| 15:06 | emiliano | ok |
| 15:07 | paul | and even if you feel too bad release manager, i can take the role. |
| 15:07 | rach | sounds good to me |
| 15:07 | emiliano | jajaja |
| 15:07 | paul | but i'm sure you will be a good release manager. |
| 15:07 | chris | the way id do it, is concentrate on doing the urgent things you need first |
| 15:07 | emiliano | ok in this case I agree |
| 15:07 | rach | Excellent |
| 15:08 | chris | as 2.2 hasnt been released yet, so like paul says 2.4 isnt urgent .. then when you have done the things u need urgently can work more on the release manager role |
| 15:08 | paul | emiliano : do you still think an official mail cuold be a good thing ? |
| 15:08 | emiliano | official mail? |
| 15:08 | paul | if yes => rach, as kaitiaki, you should take care of it. |
| 15:09 | yes, you asked for a mail for your boss. | |
| 15:09 | emiliano | yes |
| 15:09 | I think so | |
| 15:09 | paul | so, ask rachel ;-) |
| 15:09 | chris | :) |
| 15:09 | rach | yes I can do that :-) |
| 15:09 | emiliano | I wish to clear one thing |
| 15:09 | In Argentina is there | |
| 15:09 | 2 projects related with Koha | |
| 15:10 | I hope that the National Ministry | |
| 15:10 | of Education could help to enforce | |
| 15:10 | our actual efforts | |
| 15:10 | because of this I need the mail | |
| 15:11 | paul | in france, we have 2 ministries concerned by ILS : the culture & the education. Is it the same in Argentina ? |
| 15:11 | rach | ok - emiliano, can you please e-mail me at rachelkatipo.co.nz |
| 15:11 | emiliano | ok |
| 15:12 | rach | and let me know to whom I should address the mail and any other details it needs to have |
| 15:12 | emiliano | no paul one only in the same Ministry |
| 15:12 | rach | I can send a letter as a PDF for you |
| 15:12 | emiliano | ok |
| 15:12 | Denis | hello all |
| 15:13 | paul | another frenchy... |
| 15:13 | Denis | hi Paul |
| 15:13 | rach | bonjour denis |
| 15:13 | Denis | hi rach |
| 15:13 | paul | i'm please to introduce Denis Lieppe, from Sorbonne university. |
| 15:13 | rach | hi stephen |
| 15:13 | shedges | hi all |
| 15:13 | paul | user of Koha 2.0.0 in it's library (research) |
| 15:13 | hi stephen | |
| 15:13 | slef | So, who is each RM? |
| 15:13 | owen | I'm pleased to introduce Stephen Hedges, director of the Nelsonville Public Library in Ohio |
| 15:13 | paul | rach, i let you summarize |
| 15:14 | rach | 2.0 = Sleft |
| 15:14 | 2.2 = Paul | |
| 15:14 | 2.4 = Emiliano | |
| 15:14 | chris | -t |
| 15:14 | rach | erg - sorry slef |
| 15:14 | And we expect 2.0 to need to keep going for a while yet | |
| 15:15 | Denis | all right |
| 15:15 | slef | Until 2.2.1 or beyond? |
| 15:15 | rach | 2.2.1 I would hope |
| 15:15 | slef | Until 2.2.1's release date or beyond? |
| 15:15 | Denis | big "bravo" to Paul for 2.2 |
| 15:15 | slef | (sorry, realised that didn't make sense) |
| 15:15 | rach | not indefinitly |
| 15:15 | shouldn't be a life sentance :-) | |
| 15:16 | slef | OK, as there's a couple of things I'd like to hack into 2.4 |
| 15:16 | rach | Slef I would think realistically until you've converted your customers to the new version is a good "rule of thumb" |
| 15:16 | that's what we have done with 1.2 basically | |
| 15:17 | chris | perhaps we should organise a 2.4 meetin at some point? or at least a 2.4 discussion on the devel list? |
| 15:17 | slef | chris++ |
| 15:17 | emiliano | I'll be happy |
| 15:17 | rach | yes that is a good idea - there are a few more things to sort out before we all get sucked into the fun of planning the next version :-) |
| 15:17 | paul | an IRC meeting is quite complex because of worldwide koha spread |
| 15:17 | rach | yep |
| 15:18 | so a couple more volunteer positions | |
| 15:18 | paul | so a koha-dev discussion is better, with a "wiki" summary |
| 15:18 | chris | yep, a discusion on the lists might be the easiest to start with |
| 15:18 | yep paul | |
| 15:18 | rach | Russ has kindly volunteered to do some QA for the new release |
| 15:18 | russ | yep sure |
| 15:18 | paul | (denis, stay here, pls, we will speak of doc project soon. You should be interested) |
| 15:19 | slef | emiliano: will you take charge of summarising the discussion? |
| 15:19 | owen | Great news. Thanks Russ! |
| 15:19 | emiliano | ok |
| 15:19 | rach | and Mike has volunteered to be in charge of sorting out the website stuff |
| 15:19 | chris | yay mike |
| 15:19 | rach | so that we get a bit more coherance going |
| 15:19 | jmlongo | Hi everybody... sorry I'm late! |
| 15:19 | paul | good news, good news... |
| 15:19 | rach | something I am *very* happy to hear |
| 15:20 | emiliano | Hi Martin |
| 15:20 | matias | hi Martin |
| 15:20 | emiliano | Martin is our official translator |
| 15:20 | slef | Are we onto documentation or website now? |
| 15:20 | Denis | Denis more tired than Paul ;-) |
| 15:20 | rach | oh hi Martin |
| 15:20 | emiliano | he's working enhacing .po files |
| 15:20 | paul | ok. hi martin. |
| 15:20 | rach | OK quickly then ... Documentation |
| 15:20 | before you all fall asleep | |
| 15:21 | paul | ;-) |
| 15:21 | Denis | lol |
| 15:21 | jmlongo | Hi :) |
| 15:21 | slef | Can we add .po files to the end of the meeting? |
| 15:21 | paul | (about .po translation tool) |
| 15:22 | jmlongo | no prob from me |
| 15:22 | rach | Documentation. For this, i've some news. I've met neodoc company (http://www.neodoc.org/index.php?show=&lang=en) and have a financial proposal for hosting & helping doc organizing. We just have to find funds & define strategy (ie : do we want to have 1 common doc in english with various translation ? how to manage the diffs between MARC21 & UNIMARC ? ...) |
| 15:23 | slef | Do we know jferraro's opinion of this? |
| 15:23 | paul | does anyone have something to say or are you waiting for more infos from me ? |
| 15:23 | JYL | JYL is looking for an english manual first ! |
| 15:23 | shedges | are we like to find any funds? |
| 15:23 | paul | one question after another... |
| 15:23 | JYL | Let's concentrate on one good english manual first (Proposal!) |
| 15:23 | rach | do they write the documentation? |
| 15:23 | paul | NO. |
| 15:23 | rach | OK |
| 15:23 | paul | they provide tools to write common documentation. |
| 15:23 | emiliano | ok |
| 15:24 | paul | on a web based interface. |
| 15:24 | I think that's what we really lack today. | |
| 15:24 | slef | I am worried by www.neodoc.org as it seems bigger on process and technology than writing. |
| 15:24 | rach | or is that not right? |
| 15:24 | emiliano | but need volunteers for writing |
| 15:24 | slef | Yes, the problem is writing. |
| 15:24 | Denis | Would the manual on-line or a printed-one? |
| 15:24 | paul | for neodoc, it's XML technology |
| 15:25 | Denis | ok |
| 15:25 | paul | so can produce PDF & HTML versions as well as anything else |
| 15:25 | slef | jferraro has a draft of a sysadmin manual, which I will help with |
| 15:25 | chris | yeah that sysadmin manual is comig along nicely |
| 15:25 | rach | yep it looks like a good tool, but we don't have much to publish yet :-) |
| 15:26 | paul | the question of the chicken & the egg... (frenchism ?) |
| 15:26 | rach | yes |
| 15:26 | slef | So we need to find librarians who will write, or learn enough library to write it ourselves, and give those doing the writing whatever they want. |
| 15:26 | JYL | Soory guys, but in my opinion we need manuals to reassure our librarians |
| 15:26 | jmlongo | exactly... :) |
| 15:26 | shedges | Someone needs to be the "documentation" tyrant and dictate what is done -- and where |
| 15:26 | chris | yep |
| 15:26 | paul | everybody agrees I think. |
| 15:26 | slef | Put neodoc in the maybe/later stack for now. |
| 15:26 | paul | a few months ago, I asked for help on french ML |
| 15:26 | rach | that's why I asked really - is it a problem that technology can solve? or is it a "people problem" that we need some people to actuallly do it |
| 15:27 | Denis | do you know the Macromedia e-Help software? |
| 15:27 | paul | I got only 2 answers. |
| 15:27 | JYL | Stephen you're a master of documentation until now |
| 15:27 | slef | Denis: is it free software? |
| 15:27 | paul | rach => i don't know. |
| 15:27 | slef => no | |
| 15:27 | Denis | no |
| 15:27 | chris | i think we need people, i like stephens answer we need a documentation tyrant |
| 15:27 | paul | but that's technology denis loves ;-) |
| 15:27 | rach | well good tools can help - if people *like* using it then they might do more |
| 15:27 | Denis | but it is very...helpful to build an help |
| 15:28 | paul | shedges => do you want to be doc dictator ? |
| 15:28 | chris | who should work close with a release manager and we should make it our policy for the future |
| 15:28 | no new release without accompanying documentation | |
| 15:29 | rach | so we should have a "documentor" who works with the release manager |
| 15:29 | Denis | excuse me my cat is asking me to open the door |
| 15:29 | paul | & who should release often/release soon documentation to be able to translate into various languages. |
| 15:29 | rach | yes |
| 15:29 | Denis | i am back |
| 15:29 | JYL | Stephen I'm your servitor ! |
| 15:29 | rach | So I think we need to attract some people interested in this to the project |
| 15:29 | JYL | be the tyrant of our common documentation ! |
| 15:30 | shedges | hmmm. if you guys decide on the right doc tools, i do a pretty good tyrant act! |
| 15:30 | rach | if we can't bully stephen into doing it :-) |
| 15:30 | JYL | be the tyrant of our common documentation ! |
| 15:30 | rach | Paul/Denis what does NeoDoc cost? |
| 15:30 | Denis | Paul? |
| 15:30 | slef | To be honest, I think the first stage is for the RM to start refusing undocumented commits. My attempts to understand and describe koha have been hindered by undocumented code. |
| 15:31 | chris | good point |
| 15:31 | shedges | yep, that's basic |
| 15:31 | jmlongo | yep.. |
| 15:31 | paul | something like 700Euros for setting up the site. |
| 15:31 | shedges | would everyone who wrotes docs have to have a neodoc license? |
| 15:32 | paul | NO, it's only free software based |
| 15:32 | and it's only help for setting up Borges | |
| 15:32 | and helping organising the work | |
| 15:32 | they also provide proof reading. | |
| 15:33 | they propose 300E for each document structure to set. | |
| 15:33 | (after the 700 set up fee) | |
| 15:33 | jmlongo | wow! |
| 15:33 | slef | Is it web-based? |
| 15:33 | chris | wow is right |
| 15:33 | rach | yes it is |
| 15:34 | shedges | what else is out there? |
| 15:34 | chris | i wonder, could we send someone off on a mission to find that out |
| 15:34 | slef | We can probably forget about my customers using web-based systems, as they have slow lines. |
| 15:34 | emiliano | sorry but I think we're discussing about tools when the real problem is effort-people isn't it? |
| 15:34 | slef | emiliano++ |
| 15:34 | owen | Yes |
| 15:34 | rach | yep |
| 15:35 | chris | so step 1 |
| 15:35 | shedges | OK, but the bullying people to make the effort would be my task. |
| 15:35 | chris | try to gather together some doc writers |
| 15:35 | shedges | yep |
| 15:35 | rach | yep - but we need some people to actually do the writing |
| 15:35 | paul | ok, but i was speaking of them because of stephen writing. |
| 15:35 | emiliano | I think we'll do documentation for librarians but in spanish ;-) |
| 15:35 | chris | step 2, then find out out what tools would ork |
| 15:35 | work too | |
| 15:35 | paul | yes rach, but HOW to explain what & how to write ? |
| 15:36 | Denis | emiliano in dutch ;-) |
| 15:36 | shedges | doing docs in other languages is OK, as long as we share. |
| 15:36 | i learn a lot from paul's docs | |
| 15:36 | emiliano | ok we'll publish |
| 15:36 | paul | paul's doc ? which one ? |
| 15:36 | shedges | wiki stuff |
| 15:36 | paul | ok |
| 15:36 | but wiki is OK only for developpers. | |
| 15:37 | rach | Yes |
| 15:37 | paul | for librarians we need a nice PDF printable document |
| 15:37 | jmlongo | that's true... |
| 15:37 | rach | yes |
| 15:37 | shedges | format comes after content |
| 15:37 | rach | but could we start with getting the actual information on the wiki? |
| 15:37 | shedges | how do we build the content? |
| 15:37 | JYL | Could we agree on simple approach, 0) release new functions 1) online help 2) end user manual and so on ,! |
| 15:37 | rach | OK here is a quick summary of where I think we are at with this |
| 15:38 | We currently do very patchy documentation and help | |
| 15:38 | paul | mmm... maybe JYL did the suggestion we need to leave this forever lasting question of the chicken & the egg |
| 15:38 | Denis | Online help is very important for me |
| 15:38 | rach | and we don't have tools that are well liked to do it |
| 15:38 | slef | shedges: need to figure out what is most important, first |
| 15:39 | shedges | finish the online help for 2.2 |
| 15:39 | paul | yep. |
| 15:39 | Denis | I agree |
| 15:39 | JYL | right ! |
| 15:39 | paul | (koha.org still inaccessible from france) |
| 15:39 | rach | SO we need a voulunteer to do that? |
| 15:39 | slef | Do we have a 2.2 test server with "Help" links going to the wiki? |
| 15:40 | paul | no, but that may be a good idea slef. |
| 15:40 | JYL | Paul, do we get the needed "change langage" button in the 2.2 release ?! |
| 15:40 | Denis | Paul : this is a G. W. Bush action |
| 15:40 | chris | i commited it jyl, and a smaple template |
| 15:40 | sample too | |
| 15:40 | JYL | BRAVO ! |
| 15:40 | paul | i've included it in official OPAC |
| 15:40 | chris | it will need to be added to whatever templates you want it on |
| 15:41 | paul | (it's now on opac-main.pl, with CSS template. appears only when you're logged) |
| 15:41 | chris | back to documentation... i think stephen has been bullied into be a tyrant |
| 15:41 | shedges | (can that be done??) |
| 15:41 | chris | ud think not :-) |
| 15:41 | rach | Yep |
| 15:42 | owen | Stephen doesn't need any encouragement to be a tyrant! ;) |
| 15:42 | rach | OK it is now officially stephens problem :-) |
| 15:42 | chris | so the next step is a call for doc writers .. to try and build a team? |
| 15:42 | shedges | chris will look for good tools? |
| 15:42 | JYL | yes, just requires for our help |
| 15:42 | chris | and then decide what to focus on |
| 15:42 | and how | |
| 15:42 | rach | yep I think so, stephen up for that? |
| 15:42 | shedges | yep |
| 15:42 | jmlongo | :) |
| 15:42 | rach | great |
| 15:43 | Next... | |
| 15:43 | paul | wow, the koha team will be very long & worldwide ;-) |
| 15:43 | chris | stephen: yep ill do a look, but it probably wont be until after the honeymoon, so others could look as well |
| 15:43 | Denis | could we summarize about documentation? |
| 15:43 | paul | chris goes for honeymoon, paul goes for baby... |
| 15:43 | chris | :) |
| 15:43 | jmlongo | I'll look up too... |
| 15:43 | shedges | ok, chris, you're excused for a while! |
| 15:43 | paul | but no more than 2 weeks ;-) |
| 15:43 | chris | heh |
| 15:44 | JYL | Stephen, what do you think, we focus on 'end user manual' ?! |
| 15:44 | emiliano | end user |
| 15:44 | librarian? | |
| 15:44 | shedges | yes indeed! |
| 15:44 | jmlongo | End USER!!... yeah!! :) |
| 15:44 | Denis | OPAC? |
| 15:44 | JYL | yes, sorry emiliano |
| 15:44 | paul | no, i think jyl speaks of librarian (vs developper) |
| 15:44 | shedges | the admin help and the opac help are the most important |
| 15:44 | JYL | I'm still using that silly IT langage... |
| 15:45 | rach | Stephen has agreed to be the "project manager" for documentation, to organise the various documentation efforts, encourage developers to write the tech stuff, and some other people to translate that for librarians, and into other languages |
| 15:45 | slef | OPAC is end user, please don't confuse that. |
| 15:45 | owen | patron is the end user of the opac, librarians are the end users of the intranet |
| 15:45 | rach | He will send the list an e-mail about that and like the 2.4 release conversation |
| 15:45 | slef | end user of the library uses the OPAC. koha is not yet the center of this world ;-) |
| 15:46 | paul | & i'll bug french mailing list too... |
| 15:46 | rach | we can have a more focused indepth one on documentation on list |
| 15:46 | chris | give us time slef :-) |
| 15:46 | rach | rather than right now :-) |
| 15:46 | slef | shedges++ |
| 15:46 | chris | sounds good |
| 15:46 | rach | Right - I think that Koha hosting is next? |
| 15:46 | Denis | U can use RoboDemo to make some films |
| 15:46 | paul | what ? slef ? you are really sure Koha is not the center of this world ? i'm very disappointed :-D |
| 15:47 | rach | I'm hoping that Mike will sort out the whole sitemap/how to find stuff, bit |
| 15:47 | slef | Will shedges chair the list discussion? |
| 15:47 | jmlongo | it depends on what world u live :) |
| 15:47 | shedges | on koha? or koha-devel? |
| 15:47 | paul | lol |
| 15:47 | JYL | Could we have a sourceforge mailing list dedicated to documentation ? |
| 15:48 | Or do we continue on the Wiki only ?! | |
| 15:48 | slef | JYL: wait for traffic to be high enough. shedges: I suspect koha. |
| 15:48 | shedges | OK |
| 15:48 | paul | so, webhosting ? |
| 15:48 | shedges | (let's the list lurkers know we're working on it) |
| 15:50 | chris | what was koha hosting about rach? |
| 15:50 | slef | so, webhosting ? |
| 15:51 | jmlongo | webhosting of what? |
| 15:51 | paul | it was related to the various web hostings we have i suspect |
| 15:51 | rach | umm I think it was about finding all the koha websites |
| 15:51 | paul | yep. |
| 15:51 | rach | yes- rather than changing the hostings |
| 15:51 | paul | i think there are a lot of web sites related to koha |
| 15:51 | and it's not easy for a newbie to find all informations. | |
| 15:51 | rach | Yes |
| 15:52 | russ | that is confusing |
| 15:52 | indradg | hi all... sorry for being late... :) |
| 15:52 | paul | afaik, www.koha.org/irc is announced nowhere ! |
| 15:52 | (it's just an example) | |
| 15:52 | jmlongo | that's true |
| 15:52 | chris | yep |
| 15:52 | rach | True |
| 15:52 | right Mike - you still here? | |
| 15:52 | mikem | yep still here |
| 15:52 | paul | and slef site too. |
| 15:52 | slef | paul: it's linked from Kohao so, webhosting ? |
| 15:52 | paul | and wiki too. |
| 15:52 | rach | how do you feel about turning into super sleuth, and finding all the useful Koha stuff |
| 15:53 | paul | ??? slef ??? |
| 15:53 | slef | paul: it's linked from AnglKohao. |
| 15:53 | mikem | rach: that is the plan ... will start with a page on the Wiki, so that people can add links that they know off |
| 15:53 | slef | sorry, mispasted a mo ago |
| 15:53 | rach | and working out how to make the koha.org site the "hub" so that people find things |
| 15:53 | and it all makes a bit more sense | |
| 15:54 | Cool - and as you're just up the road | |
| 15:54 | you can come in here and get a training session on koha website | |
| 15:54 | slef | mikem: have you a bugs.koha.org account and will chris reassign web bugs to you? |
| 15:54 | russ | rach - i can do that |
| 15:54 | chris | yep, and yep |
| 15:55 | mikem | Slef ... yes I have ... and I will hit that shortly |
| 15:55 | rach | Excellent |
| 15:55 | SO I think the last thing is bugs? | |
| 15:55 | paul | so, we could add a link from www.koha.org, www.koha-fr.org, slef site & kados & other to this common wiki page. |
| 15:55 | chris | well now we have russ as QA |
| 15:55 | paul | good solution. |
| 15:56 | slef | paul: what common wiki page? |
| 15:56 | chris | he can start reassigning bugs, pestering people |
| 15:56 | Denis | A problem is the mix of informations concerning different versions of KOHA |
| 15:56 | rach | www.koha.org/wiki |
| 15:56 | paul | slef : see mikem line |
| 15:57 | chris | yes you are right denis, there is old information that shold dissapear |
| 15:57 | rach | yes denis that is a problem |
| 15:57 | slef | OK. Why not use the koha webring idea? |
| 15:57 | Information should be clearly versioned or dated. | |
| 15:57 | paul | for both koha.org & koha-fr.org. |
| 15:57 | Denis | In the web site the documentation should be ordrered by version |
| 15:57 | rach | ok that is a good idea |
| 15:57 | JYL | yes we need to add an archive section on the wiki for older releases. |
| 15:58 | paul | not just on wiki. |
| 15:58 | on website too | |
| 15:58 | rach | Mike you gather the ideas, and then let me know what you need for the Koha site, and come in and we can talk with the techs here about how to achieve it |
| 15:58 | if that works for you | |
| 15:58 | JYL | yeah, probably on website too... |
| 15:58 | mikem | no worries Rach |
| 15:58 | rach | So out of this meeting we are going to get 3 "roadmaps" basically |
| 15:59 | one for the 2.4 release | |
| 15:59 | one for the documentation | |
| 15:59 | and one for the website/online stuff | |
| 15:59 | I think | |
| 15:59 | chris | well 3 discussions |
| 15:59 | rach | yes - that;s what I meant |
| 15:59 | chris | and from those discussions will come roadmaps |
| 15:59 | rach | yes |
| 15:59 | and then ACTION :-) | |
| 16:00 | slef | Is there a release target date for 2.2? |
| 16:00 | paul | 1 month |
| 16:00 | rach | great |
| 16:00 | Denis | tomorrow Paul? |
| 16:00 | ;-) | |
| 16:00 | paul | today is 2.1.2 |
| 16:01 | Ecole des Mines de Nantes will begin with 2.1.2 in real life soon | |
| 16:01 | (1 week or so) | |
| 16:01 | as I think there are no more blocking bugs. | |
| 16:01 | rach | woo exciting |
| 16:01 | shedges | we won't have complete docs for 2.2 in one month. |
| 16:01 | emiliano | A question.. |
| 16:01 | paul | :-( |
| 16:01 | yep emiliano ? | |
| 16:01 | shedges | but probably the online docs can be pretty well done |
| 16:01 | JYL | good remark Stephen |
| 16:01 | jmlongo | bu the disclaimer says that we should NEVER NEVER NEVER use it production! |
| 16:02 | slef | There will be 2.0.2 this week, too. Biblio fix, removal of spanish suggestion and whatever other bugs are squashed in the next 24 hours. |
| 16:02 | jmlongo | :) |
| 16:02 | paul | yep. |
| 16:02 | emiliano | what are the criterias for introducing new tables in a release |
| 16:02 | in the database I mean | |
| 16:02 | paul | i think it needs too many attention to be able to release it publicly. |
| 16:02 | chris | cool slef |
| 16:02 | rach | way to go slef |
| 16:02 | paul | we need more testing of the installer/updater. |
| 16:03 | chris | documentation about why/how they are used emiliano |
| 16:03 | and a way to upgrade from the old db | |
| 16:03 | emiliano | ok could be posted in misc scripts from cvs |
| 16:03 | slef | Can bugs.koha.org defaults be updated, please? Lots of stuff still gets assigned to Steve. |
| 16:03 | Denis | documetion wil be only for 2.2 and 2.4 not for 2.0? |
| 16:04 | chris | there is an updatedabase script, so usually just editing that, and then writing some documentation about what the new tables are for |
| 16:04 | paul | denis => you can see irc logs on koha.org/irc |
| 16:04 | (saying this in case your battery is ended) | |
| 16:04 | Denis | thank you Paul |
| 16:04 | slef | Denis: 2.0 is getting sysadmin documentation as I find it, but will probably not get librarian or end-user docs. |
| 16:04 | Denis | oki slef |
| 16:05 | paul | emiliano => all updates of DB must be done through updater/updatedatabase script. |
| 16:05 | but it has to be cleaned, because it's from 1.0.0 DB... | |
| 16:05 | emiliano | ok |
| 16:06 | paul | I think it could be modified to update from 2.0 to 2.4 |
| 16:06 | & we could say "if you have a 1.2 version, update to 2.0, THEN to 2.4" | |
| 16:06 | rach | So is there anything else on the agenda for today? CVS v's ARCH was mentioned |
| 16:06 | paul | yep. |
| 16:06 | rach | otherwise we can lapse into general discussion |
| 16:06 | chris | ive gotta go, ill be back in a little while |
| 16:07 | paul | bye chris |
| 16:07 | mikem | l8r chris |
| 16:07 | paul | slef ? something to say about CVS vs ARCH ? |
| 16:07 | owen | slef, did you want to bring up specific bugs? |
| 16:07 | rach | oh yes - I can do a summary of the bugs if anyone still can't get to bugs.koha.org |
| 16:08 | emiliano | paul, another little question |
| 16:08 | paul | (denis battery has ended...) |
| 16:08 | yes emiliano | |
| 16:08 | slef | paul: What do you want to know? Managing 2.0 became very easy after the move, as I can make prerelease tarballs with a single command (no extra download space) and the buildrelease.pl goes away |
| 16:08 | mikem | bugs.koha.org works fine for me ;-) |
| 16:08 | emiliano | Serials didn't introduce new tables? |
| 16:08 | paul | yes. |
| 16:08 | emiliano | ok |
| 16:08 | slef | It's just a shame that no other public archives for 2.0 were posted, but I guess 2.2 has all the appeal for developers now. |
| 16:08 | paul | they introduce 3 tables. |
| 16:09 | rach | So Slef would you advocate eveyone moving ot it? |
| 16:09 | owen | The issue of CVS vs. Arch doesn't hing solely on the ease of use for developers. There are also the /end users/ to think about |
| 16:09 | emiliano | are there in updatedatabase? |
| 16:09 | paul | yes |
| 16:09 | emiliano | ok |
| 16:09 | nice!! | |
| 16:09 | rach | is there generally a problem with different releases using different systems (I'm assuming there is) |
| 16:09 | paul | owen => why are end users concened by cvs/arch ? |
| 16:09 | slef | rach: yes, but it would be best if we can offer arch hosting if there are developers who need it. |
| 16:09 | rach | but happy to be corrected |
| 16:10 | slef | owen: I hope putting troublesome bugs in the topic is enough attention that people will look at it when the meeting finishes ;-) |
| 16:10 | owen | Well, there's the issue of the CVS mailing list. And there's the Web view available through Sourceforge--even though it's not updated often enough, it can be useful at times |
| 16:11 | paul | my question about arch is : is every developper ready to switch to this new platform ? |
| 16:11 | slef | rach: I think it's a more general communication problem. When I ask 2.2 developers for patches, most ignore them. |
| 16:11 | paul | this means having a learning curve |
| 16:11 | shedges | yeah, i think the reasons to switch have to be pretty strong. |
| 16:12 | slef | owen: as far as I can remember, no-one raised the issue of the CVS mailing list until 2 hours ago. I can probably configure that. |
| 16:12 | rach | but slef for maintenance you think that aarch is good? |
| 16:12 | paul | i know the weaknesses of CVS, & deals with them |
| 16:12 | rach | or for development too? |
| 16:12 | paul | but if everybody want to switch, i'll switch too. |
| 16:12 | shedges | i still haven't figured arch out :-( |
| 16:12 | slef | I think it's essential for maintenance, but would help make it easier to get new developers. |
| 16:12 | paul | (i even have found a complete tutorial in french ;-) ) |
| 16:13 | slef | shedges: have you seen http://www.mjr.dsl.pipex.com/uzu-arkon.html ? |
| 16:13 | shedges | yep |
| 16:13 | slef | email me questions about it and I'll try to answer swiftly |
| 16:13 | paul | slef => you really think it will be easier to ge new developers ? because ppl uses often CVS, but who uses arch ? |
| 16:14 | slef | paul: at present, new developers have a hard time using revision control until they are given commit access to the main tree. arch solves that and also makes merging branches easier. |
| 16:14 | paul | from a tech point of view, you're completly right. |
| 16:15 | but, for example, Emiliano => if koha had been with arch | |
| 16:15 | slef | paul: so, yes. User numbers aren't that relevant, as long as it's about as easy, otherwise we'd all be using Microsoft and Penlib or something, wouldn't we? |
| 16:15 | paul | would it have changed something to your choice ? |
| 16:15 | (= choice to get involved in Koha) | |
| 16:15 | (emiliano or matias) | |
| 16:16 | emiliano | I think no, i find |
| 16:16 | paul | slef => right ;-) |
| 16:16 | emiliano | cvs very difficult |
| 16:16 | and very time-consuming | |
| 16:16 | paul | ok, so if everybody is ready to switch to arch, i agree |
| 16:16 | katipo & Nelsonville => your opinion ? | |
| 16:17 | emiliano | but don't think it will restrict access to others |
| 16:17 | russ | it is a shame chris had to leave |
| 16:17 | rach | to give our opinion |
| 16:17 | russ | i am sure he has an opinion |
| 16:17 | shedges | i'll keep trying (with slef's help) |
| 16:17 | rach | so that it doesn't interfere with the release of 2.1/2.2 |
| 16:17 | owen | I'm worried about the transition to arch because I'm used to a Windows GUI. But I'm definitely in the minority there. I'll go with whatever is agreed upon. |
| 16:18 | rach | is that a sensible approach? |
| 16:18 | shedges | yep |
| 16:18 | JYL | Am I right saying that this source management choice |
| 16:18 | paul | owen => there are some GUI on arch |
| 16:18 | slef | owen: yes, windows support is somewhat lacking for arch, that's true. You'll need a CVS gateway or cygwin IIRC. |
| 16:18 | MattH | as someone with years of cvs experience, i'd be backing staying with cvs |
| 16:18 | JYL | is only linked with future 2.4 release ?! |
| 16:18 | MattH | but then i'm not what you'd call and active koha developer |
| 16:19 | please forgive my intrusion | |
| 16:19 | rach | (not yet :-) |
| 16:19 | paul | look here : http://better-scm.berlios.de/c[…]n/comparison.html for various nice GUI for arch |
| 16:19 | rach | OK - what I would like so that we can make a sensible choice |
| 16:20 | is for a quick run down on what is good about CVS | |
| 16:20 | what is bad or difficult in CVS | |
| 16:20 | paul | now ? |
| 16:20 | rach | what problems ARCH solves |
| 16:20 | russ | i would say a email to the dev list would be the go |
| 16:20 | rach | and what some potential problems with a change might be |
| 16:20 | because to me, this is hearts and minds stuff for developers | |
| 16:21 | paul | slef, you initiate the thread ? |
| 16:21 | rach | I *know* you are all capable of learning a new thing, as long as you see that it is worthwhile |
| 16:21 | slef | http://wiki.gnuarch.org/moin.c[…]nAndCvsComparison |
| 16:21 | I'll hang on for a few in case here are questions here, then summarise in the first email. | |
| 16:22 | rach | that would be great thanks slef |
| 16:22 | matias | people...IŽm leaving...gotta go... |
| 16:22 | rach | thanks matias |
| 16:22 | paul | bye matias |
| 16:22 | rach | OK i think that is the end of the formal part of the meeting? |
| 16:23 | matias | bye Paul...bye all... |
| 16:23 | see you... | |
| 16:23 | rach | it is now time for drinks and nibbles :-) |
| 16:23 | russ | mike give me a call on the Katipo number when you are ready to come in about the website |
| 16:23 | JYL | or a little rest for us maybe ?! |
| 16:23 | rach | or to thrash out anything else, if people are keen to hang about |
| 16:24 | or yes rest for you :-) | |
| 16:24 | emiliano | a little out of topic |
| 16:24 | didn't you receive | |
| 16:24 | mikem | russ ... no worries ... rach: when are you back from the US? |
| 16:24 | emiliano | comments about mysql license |
| 16:24 | changes | |
| 16:24 | JYL | Ok, thanks for this interesting discussion folks ! |
| 16:24 | emiliano | and Koha relation with it? |
| 16:25 | paul | bye jean yves |
| 16:25 | have a good night | |
| 16:25 | JYL | Stephen don't hesitate to ask for help |
| 16:25 | shedges | thanks! |
| 16:25 | rach | back on the 18th of October |
| 16:25 | JYL | Bye ! and Paul tell me about your installer tests... |
| 16:25 | mikem | thanks Rach |
| 16:26 | rach | thanks for coming everyone, a bit of a marathon meeting |
| 16:26 | JYL | Rach, should be a good idea to plan the next meeting maybe ?! |
| 16:26 | slef | emiliano: they just broadened the exception a bit, didn't they? |
| 16:26 | russ | paul i will send you and email about the qa stuff |
| 16:26 | paul | JYL => 1000% right ! |
| 16:26 | ok | |
| 16:26 | shedges | 2 weeks? |
| 16:27 | slef | Plan meeting on list, else we make it hard for people not here now. |
| 16:27 | emiliano | bad time to question :-) |
| 16:27 | rach | yes I agree slef |
| 16:27 | JYL | 2 short meetings a month is fine for me |
| 16:28 | paul | jyl : the problem is that it's rarely short ;-) |
| 16:28 | russ | bye all |
| 16:29 | JYL | yeah, we probably need more german co-workers to stress timing issues... lol |
| 16:29 | slef | JYL: xenophobe |
| 16:30 | JYL | Ok, still need to test a few things, bye and have a good night |
| 16:30 | paul | bye JYL |
| 16:30 | MattH | it's a stereotype, not xenophobia |
| 16:30 | JYL | slef, take a look at where I live and you will understand that I love my neighbours ! |
| 16:31 | shedges | bye jean yves |
| 16:31 | bye paul | |
| 16:31 | bye all, i'm gone, too | |
| 16:31 | jmlongo | Paul: you wanted to talk about po files? |
| 16:31 | paul | right. |
| 16:31 | (it's almost midnight here. i was forgotting...) | |
| 16:32 | jmlongo | or are your battteries too low? :) |
| 16:32 | paul | I've set up a webserver for french translation. |
| 16:32 | it uses kartouche. | |
| 16:32 | emiliano | paul seems to be solar |
| 16:32 | paul | (look at bureau.paulpoulain.com/ kartouche) |
| 16:32 | (without the space) | |
| 16:32 | it works fine for any iso5589-1 language i think | |
| 16:32 | mikem | chris: just for when you get back, I have updated bugs.koha.org to make myself the initial contact for the website related bugs/issues |
| 16:33 | paul | so I could set up a .po file for spanish translation too |
| 16:33 | and generate the official .po file from there | |
| 16:33 | slef | what about utf-8? |
| 16:33 | paul | (if you need some help, of course) |
| 16:33 | slef => i don't know. i haven't dig | |
| 16:33 | slef | How do we use .po files at the minute? |
| 16:34 | paul | misc/translator/tmpl_process3.pl to generate/update the .po |
| 16:34 | and to generate the translated templates | |
| 16:34 | jmlongo | that would be grat.. |
| 16:34 | paul | kartouche "eats" the .po file & can regenerate it after translations. |
| 16:34 | so, the process is : | |
| 16:35 | * tmpl_process3.pl create/update | |
| 16:35 | * import into kartouche | |
| 16:35 | * translate | |
| 16:35 | * export .po file again | |
| 16:35 | * tmpl_process3.pl generate | |
| 16:35 | emiliano | it seems to be very nice |
| 16:35 | is OSS? | |
| 16:35 | paul | yep. |
| 16:35 | (used by a kde translation team) | |
| 16:36 | (for hungarian or something like that) | |
| 16:36 | jmlongo | we were planning to use kbabel... because of it's database facilities |
| 16:36 | emiliano | is there a way to "remember" terms or phrases? |
| 16:36 | kados | hi all |
| 16:36 | paul | a little bit hacked by me |
| 16:36 | hi kados. | |
| 16:36 | kados | sorry I'm late |
| 16:36 | jmlongo | does kartouche offers something similar? |
| 16:36 | paul | no, you arrive after the battle ;-) |
| 16:36 | kados | hehe |
| 16:36 | slef | kartouche is originally welsh |
| 16:36 | paul | right |
| 16:36 | slef | and has omnivore as a translation memory |
| 16:36 | paul | right too |
| 16:37 | emiliano | omnivore? |
| 16:37 | jmlongo | ??? |
| 16:37 | slef | another web system |
| 16:37 | paul | but i don't know how to use omnivore. |
| 16:37 | slef | me neither... I translate files with a text editor atm |
| 16:38 | emiliano | I'm worried about reusing translations |
| 16:38 | but it seems to be nice for seeing the advances | |
| 16:39 | in translation for a distributed group | |
| 16:39 | for example | |
| 16:39 | paul | right |
| 16:39 | slef | context is everything, but I think the kyfieithu developers know that |
| 16:40 | Are there plans to use the .po files directly from koha? | |
| 16:40 | paul | not for instance. |
| 16:40 | but it's a good idea | |
| 16:41 | (a lot of things are good ideas in fact... the problem being to do them ;-) ) | |
| 16:41 | jmlongo | so we wouldn't have to 'generate' templates? |
| 16:41 | paul | yep |
| 16:41 | (but in fact they will be generated on the fly) | |
| 16:41 | jmlongo | (I see) |
| 16:42 | emiliano | wondefull!!! |
| 16:42 | paul | what is wonderful ? |
| 16:42 | slef | Might it make the "select language" feature easier to support? |
| 16:42 | paul | mmm... yes & no. |
| 16:42 | jmlongo | I guees emiliano like things 'on the fly' ;) |
| 16:43 | emiliano | yes |
| 16:44 | paul | a conclusion on .po subject ? |
| 16:45 | (midnight in 15 minuts here... want to go to bed ;-) ) | |
| 16:45 | emiliano | I think we could test Kartouche, installing here |
| 16:45 | or opening | |
| 16:45 | slef | I guess it's up to emiliano to discuss. |
| 16:45 | emiliano | a new project |
| 16:45 | slef | How am I supposed to ask translators for updated templates? |
| 16:45 | emiliano | inside your Kartouche |
| 16:46 | paul | slef => probably on translation mailing list. |
| 16:46 | emiliano => i'm ok to add your .po file to bureau.paulpoulain.com | |
| 16:46 | chris | www.koha.org/irc |
| 16:46 | kados | sweet |
| 16:47 | emiliano | what do you think Martin? |
| 16:47 | paul | emiliano => just send your almost-translated .po file, & i'll take care of it. |
| 16:47 | we cuold begin by opac.po | |
| 16:47 | emiliano | I have opac.po translated |
| 16:47 | jmlongo | well... we could give it a try.. |
| 16:47 | paul | just note that bureau.paulpoulain.com is my local computer. |
| 16:47 | and may be switched off | |
| 16:47 | emiliano | mmmm |
| 16:47 | slef | paul: they didn't answer a request for help with spanish, so I'm dropping it from the suggested list in 2.0.2 |
| 16:48 | jmlongo | eeks |
| 16:48 | slef | (librarian interface and existing users can continue anyway) |
| 16:48 | paul | (i'll have a new 24/7 webserver in a few months) |
| 16:49 | emiliano | Well, I will speak with Martin |
| 16:49 | paul | slef=> nothing to say about this. I've no libraries using spanish koha, so i'm OK |
| 16:49 | kartouche is quite easy to set up | |
| 16:49 | the biggest difficulty is to find where to download it | |
| 16:49 | www.freshmeat.net was my friend here | |
| 16:49 | jmlongo | we'll work on it |
| 16:49 | emiliano | ok |
| 16:50 | slef | paul: not on www.kyfieithu.co.uk? |
| 16:50 | yes, www.kyfieithy.co.uk -> Downloads | |
| 16:50 | kyfieithu damnit | |
| 16:51 | paul | no, it's 0.0.1 it seems. |
| 16:51 | slef | my fingers don't speak welsh |
| 16:51 | paul | freshmeat points to 0.0.2 |
| 16:51 | jmlongo | does kartouche have an english interface? |
| 16:51 | slef | ah, have you let Kevin know? |
| 16:51 | paul | yep jmlongo |
| 16:51 | no. | |
| 16:52 | emiliano | jajajaja |
| 16:52 | Martin, perhaps must start translating | |
| 16:52 | paul | http://www.kyfieithu.co.uk/dow[…]ouche-v0.2.tar.gz |
| 16:52 | emiliano | Kartouche |
| 16:52 | jmlongo | yessss... |
| 16:53 | ok... I'm downbloading it now... | |
| 16:53 | we'll see | |
| 16:53 | emiliano | ok |
| 16:54 | jmlongo | I tried to apt-get it... but no luck... :P |
| 16:54 | If we can work it out... maybe we can host po translations for othere :*) | |
| 16:55 | paul | ok, do you let me go to bed ? |
| 16:55 | slef | jmlongo: I need to educate them in the ways of debian before apt-get will work ;-) |
| 16:55 | emiliano | for me it's ok Paul |
| 16:55 | jmlongo | haha... I'll have to waut then... :) |
| 16:55 | emiliano | regards and thanx a lot |
| 16:56 | slef | Does the koha 2.4 proposed features only have one item in it at the moment? |
| 16:56 | jmlongo | well... have nice dreams Paul! |
| 16:56 | emiliano | nooo |
| 16:56 | paul | ok, bye bye. |
| 16:56 | emiliano | 5 items |
| 16:56 | and more for doing (?) | |
| 16:56 | slef | I only see Barcodes generator. |
| 16:56 | I am looking at http://biblio.fisica.unlp.edu.[…]librarian/kohapf/ | |
| 16:56 | emiliano | there is a little botton |
| 16:56 | down | |
| 16:56 | that says Next | |
| 16:57 | and barcodes is included in 2.1.2 | |
| 16:57 | less for 2.4 | |
| 16:57 | jmlongo | ok guys.. I'll have to leave now... |
| 16:57 | emiliano | slef, do you see |
| 16:57 | ? | |
| 16:57 | slef | Can that be made more obvious, please? I mistook it for part of the text. |
| 16:58 | kados: date --utc | |
| 16:58 | owen | Too bad you didn't calculate an hour early like I did. It worked out better. |
| 16:58 | jmlongo | thanks for all |
| 16:58 | emiliano | sure |
| 16:58 | jmlongo | bye! |
| 16:58 | slef | jmlongo: bye |
| 16:58 | emiliano | I'll try to put in a entire document |
| 16:58 | bye Martin | |
| 17:00 | kados | I'm skeptical of the neodoc thing ... |
| 17:00 | pretty expensive ... | |
| 17:00 | I think all we need is vi and some time :-) | |
| 17:01 | emiliano | I think we need volunteers |
| 17:01 | paul | mmm... kados, remember the doc is not written by developpers (librarian doc i mean) |
| 17:01 | emiliano | I could obtain but for spanish only |
| 17:02 | kados | which docs do you mean? the sysadmin manual? |
| 17:02 | slef | Also, moving to arch would let 2.4RMs ask developers for code docs before accepting work... not sure if that would work or not |
| 17:02 | kados | or librarian docs? |
| 17:02 | paul | no, the librarian doc |
| 17:03 | emiliano | well, I'm also leaving |
| 17:03 | regards to all | |
| 17:03 | kados | cao |
| 17:03 | rach | ciao emiliano |
| 17:08 | kados | dunno ... his website appears down: http://pate.eylerfamily.org/ |
| 17:10 | rach | yeah I noticed that |
| 17:10 | kados | rach: you could always use the wayback machine: |
| 17:10 | http://web.archive.org/web/*/h[…].eylerfamily.org/ | |
| 17:11 | rach | true - although I don't think that site had his addy on it |
| 17:11 | kados | ahh |
| 17:14 | slef | whois eylerfamily.org has an address |
| 17:14 | no idea whose | |
| 17:15 | Jo | Good morning |
| 17:15 | mikem | rach ... nsr would probably have his addy |
| 17:16 | Jo | Si: can I send a fax to you (telstra proposal for branches) for a quick squizz before I meet him? |
| 17:16 | rach | ok ta |
| 17:20 | Jo | rach: can i fax something to katipo for si to get sometime before Thursday? |
| 17:22 | rach | yes do it now |
| 17:22 | 04-934 1286 | |
| 17:22 | he is here | |
| 17:27 | Jo | cool |
| 17:27 | thanks | |
| 17:29 | rach | no prob |
| 17:40 | Jo is the handwriting important? | |
| 17:40 | because we can't really read that | |
| 17:46 | Jo | nope |
| 17:46 | my scribble | |
| 17:47 | i will email down my questions to si - they cover the handwriting | |
| 17:47 | rach | ok |
| 17:47 | have got 20 pages | |
| 17:47 | is that the right number | |
| 18:04 | slef | kados: just replying to your old email. Sorry for the lag. |
| 18:42 | http://www.kyfieithu.co.uk/manual.html |
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